Double Take- opposing Camps

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amother

OP ↓

Sat, Sep 07 2024, 10:53 pm

I don't think a thread was opened about this yet.
Last week someone started a thread about having to go to in-service meetings where she felt the school was wasting her time. They had pointless meetings and hired a mentalist to entertain the teachers.

This Double Take was about a school that had extremely important in-service meetings, but was not taken seriously by the teachers because they conflicted with the camp's schedule.
What complicates things is that the teacher here feels forced to take the camp position as she needs it to support her family.
Wondering what other people think...

Here's my take.
The principal had trouble sympathizing with the teacher's position, and repeatedly refers to the camp job as "vacation". She starts off taking about how teachers get a break, but principals don't.
She doesn't seem to realize that the reality for most teachers is that they cannot afford to not work for 2 months, so camp is not a "vacation".
She said that being in an out of town community does not allow her to work with the camp schedule, and my question is why not?
I know that this year specifically, my children's schools started about a week later than usual for this very reason.

I have been a married staff mamber so I know what it's like to be in your own timezone, cut off from the world and not having good reception. I think this made for a very frustrating conversation, which didn't help matters.

In any case, I think the situation could not have a good solution for this year. It was way too late in the game for her to start putting her foot down. But for the following year, the principal's position needs to be made clear months in advance of the summer.

amother

Phlox

Sat, Sep 07 2024, 10:55 pm

Some very OOT schools start much earlier, like in the middle of August. Can someone please enlighten me as to WHY?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Sep 07 2024, 11:00 pm

amother Phlox wrote:

Some very OOT schools start much earlier, like in the middle of August. Can someone please enlighten me as to WHY?

I don't know. But in my state, we usually start the last week of August, usually a good week earlier than NY schools.
We also end earlier.
The public schools start in mid August.

amother

Whitewash

Sat, Sep 07 2024, 11:02 pm

The principal was 100% wrong
There is NO need for 3 days of meetings.
Two hours would suffice. She can do that after the first day of school while providing child care and dinner on premises for all ages.
I was livid when I read this article.

amother

Powderblue

Sat, Sep 07 2024, 11:09 pm

amother Phlox wrote:

Some very OOT schools start much earlier, like in the middle of August. Can someone please enlighten me as to WHY?

Many OOT schools give a long winter break (7-10 days) so I guess they start earlier to offset that. They also tend to end earlier on june than in town schools

ittsamother ↓

Sat, Sep 07 2024, 11:51 pm

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....75169

I opened a thread on this article recently : )

amother

Grape

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 12:08 am

What is it with some principals that they think the world revolves around THEIR school’s schedule?!

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 2:05 am

If the principal wants to change the rules, IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE CONTRACT.

The end.

amother

Bubblegum

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 2:22 am

The principal was wrong.

Teachers aren't getting paid to attend in service meetings. There is no way they can take away sick days for that.

Any meetings before school starts should be short and available on handouts/ recordings or over zoom.

They can always be scheduled after yom tov during a school week.

The teachers aren't having vacation and aren't owned by the school annually.

They are employed for the 10 months they are paid, and that is all.

The principal sounded extremely entitled and unrealistic.

imaima

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 2:27 am

amother OP wrote:

I am not familiar with this particular set up but IME principals complaining that they don’t get a break is ridiculous and immature.
And the school usually accommodates the employees schedule during these meetings.

amother

Melon ↓

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 9:42 am

amother Grape wrote:

What is it with some principals that they think the world revolves around THEIR school’s schedule?!

It is an offshoot of the broader mindset that the schools are there to control our yiddishkeit and our lives.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 9:48 am

imaima wrote:

In the narrative, she wasn't straight out complaining. It was said as a side point, but inserted deliberately to highlight the idea that teachers get "vacation" as opposed to principals.

amother

↑ Melon

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 9:51 am

amother OP wrote:

In the narrative, she wasn't straight out complaining. It was said as a side point, but inserted deliberately to highlight the idea that teachers get "vacation" as opposed to principals.

Curious - do principals get paid for the summer months? Unpaid weeks is not considered a vacation in my world.

If the schools would pay them for the summer months then the schools would have the right to request them to show up at their bidding. If they don't pay them, they have zero rights to their time.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 10:00 am

amother Melon wrote:

Is there a difference if we use the word break as opposed to vacation? She meant that they get a break.
I don't know if principals get paid.

When I taught in a high school, I got paid per period. So if I taught 15 periods a week, it was multiplied by whatever number I was getting per period. That number became my yearly salary. The yearly salary was divided in to ten months, so I did not get paid over the summer.

However, at some point it was switched, and the yearly salary was paid out over 12 months, so we did get checks for the two months during the summer. But the monthly check was less.

However, you cut it, most teachers find it necessary to work in the summer.
As a former married staff member myself, one big perk in working in a camp was that my own kids got free camp. (I don't know if this is true all over.)

This principal seemed unaware of the true dynamics of what a typical teacher/mother has to juggle in the summer.

notshanarishona

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 10:09 am

If principals want more teachers to quit , making more mandatory inservice is a great way to do that.
The summer is for teachers to do what they want, other jobs, be a mommy, relax. If summers became mandatory to be available probably 50% of teachers would leave over that.
There are no 2 sides here, just a narcissistic boss who thinks she owns her employees

amother

Bergamot ↓

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 10:18 am

I just read this story over Shabbos and it got me so mad! (As a teacher, naturally.)

If the principal wants her teachers to show complete loyalty to their 10 month a year job, as she says they ought to, she should make they get paid enough over those ten months that they shouldn't have to take summer jobs to make ends meet. Which world is this woman living in?

Although I do agree that the training she wanted to give was important, it wasn't something that davka had to be done before school started. It could have been done on a Sunday soon after the beginning of the school year.

One caveat, I don't remember exactly when the teacher was going to come back to town, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect her back a day before school starts. When was she planning to set up her classroom? And if so, the teacher's meeting should have been that day. That's how they do it where I work.

amother

Tealblue

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 10:22 am

She's a HS teacher. How much classroom setting up does she need to do?

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 11:05 am

amother Phlox wrote:

Some very OOT schools start much earlier, like in the middle of August. Can someone please enlighten me as to WHY?

Public schools start at different times in different cities and states.
Sometimes frum schools need to follow it for various reasons including state testing or perhaps funding of specific programs.

OOT also gives a lot longer off at different times of the year to help with travel. We have to make up the days somewhere.

amother

↑ Bergamot ↓

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 12:33 pm

amother Tealblue wrote:

She's a HS teacher. How much classroom setting up does she need to do?

Oh, right. I forgot about that. Still, I also teach high school and although I'm not setting up my classroom, I still check that I have the textbooks and other supplies that I need, that the room is set up, and also we do spend some time on a teachers meeting. I can't imagine coming back from camp on Sunday and starting school on Monday.

groisamomma

Sun, Sep 08 2024, 4:27 pm

ittsamother wrote:

https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=575169

I opened a thread on this article recently : )

As a teacher and married staff member at a camp, I was incredulous reading this.

1) With the base salary and all the perks that come with working in a sleepaway camp, it is fair to say the pay is easily double the monthly salary of a teacher throughout the year. Hence, it gets priority when the schedules conflict.

2) I thought the principal wrote that it was worked into the contract that they’d have to take a Personal Day if they missed it. In that case, it’s the teacher’s choice and she has the right to miss it in exchange for a personal day. But three personal days?? That would never have made it onto a decent teacher contract, and is just spiteful on the principal’s part.

I hear and understand the background the principal gave, and the importance of this particular training, however any way you slice it it’s the teacher’s choice to take the ONE personal day in the contract, especially if she was willing to make it up when she got back.

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