Double Take: Separating Classes by Yeshivishness

Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 4:09 pm

I'm with the mother here. I can't imagine where Ariella is holding after being friends with these girls for 2 years that it will bring a detrimental effect to the girls who were already allowed to be in her social circles. And it sounds like it's just an elementary school. We're talking one year of keeping her with friends that she was with beforehand anyway.

amother

NeonPink

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 4:11 pm

I'm really torn.
I understand the school but as a parent, the kid who took my son down the dangerous route of open internet etc was the son of the local rosh yeshiva.
What would I choose for my own kids?
I don't know anymore. I think that sometimes being with kids who have btdt and don't have the temptation for it is healthier than the very narrow yeshivish outlook.

amother

Electricblue ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 4:19 pm

That school is so out of line. If parents want to open a breakaway school, let them.

Most teachers are not going to leave the job they've had for years for a brand new school. And the school has the resources to make parallel classes for every single grade, they could simply make larger classes if necessary.

Destroying a child's social life is not the answer. Better to let those parents break away, if they manage to actually pull it off.

Besides, breakaway schools usually start with the younger grades, so it wouldn't have impacted the older girls in this way at all.

mha3484

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 4:47 pm

I have lots to say on this topic. I have 3 boys and a girl. My boys school has had years they made a "yeshivish" class and years they didn't. The most recent year was a full on disaster. You can not make a class based on the parents it has to be done based on which kid will best connect to which teacher. I wanted to switch my son into the yeshivish class and the behavior was so bad the menahel was like you really really don't want that class. I was told after this grades issues they are no longer making classes based on yeshivishness.

The girls school attached to my boys school tries really hard to make each class a healthy mix. My daughter's class really has a little of each type in a bais yaakov school. To me this is much healthier. Each class should have a solid group of like minded boys or girls so your not saying no all the time but also your not trying to put kids with a rebbe or morah who cant handle them based on last name.

As a parent is it easier in a class where everyone is basically the same as you. Yes it is. My oldest boy was in a class with a huge range, my middle is in a class where there is a mix but overall most parents are very likeminded and my third boy is in a class where there is a solid group like us but the majority are to the left of us. My middle boys class is a pleasure. DH and I and my oldest have had to have some really hard conversations over the years but he has really grown from the experience. I don't think I would have chosen to put him in his class but he's become a really thought out, hashkafically strong person who really has a strong value system.

So at the end of the day I really think the concept of the yeshivish class needs to go.

amother

Turquoise ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:30 pm

School is totally in the wrong.
I get where they are coming from but honestly- judge the kid. Not the parents or siblings.

I know so many kids who are absolutely different than their siblings and parents.
My own family has one shtark kollel family, one more middle of the road ( limits on exposure but allows some secular books and things), one more MO (open about watching movies, TV, parents have facebook).
One of these kids were super academic, no behavior problems, top of class types. (And that is not the kollel one.) Then there is the one that never did homework or studied, had some struggles. We all turned out ok and happy where we are on the spectrum. But very different from the same family.

And then there were the kollel and chinuch families I grew up with whose kids cheated on tests. Were the trouble makers. Skipped class. And the "yeshivish one of their MO family" kids who never had a problem in school.

It isn't the family. It is the kid.

You cannot judge a kid based off their family.
Or I guess Avraham Avinu would be in the "modern exposed to outside world class".

amother

↑ Electricblue ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:34 pm

amother Mintcream wrote:

Disgusting of the principal. I don’t agree with the whole concept of spilling that way in general, but that’s not even the point. She can make an exception. There’s no way the other parents would complain about her or threaten to leave the school because of one girl.

Some parents could very well complain. So what? She should grow a backbone and do the right thing.

amother

↑ Electricblue ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:40 pm

keym wrote:

I thought I read that the mothers of the daughters friends were specifically pushing for the split and to split their daughters from Avigail.

Anyone else saw that?

Quote:

The parents of Avigail’s old friends were among the ones who had pushed so hard for this change. That as much as she was working to fit in with them, it simply was not fair to expect a girl brought up with so much exposure to know automatically what should or shouldn’t be shared; to have her always feel like she has to prove herself; to have her friends’ parents quietly ask them not to spend too much time in her house, since they weren’t happy about the easy access to technology….

These parents are in lala land. I worked in the most yeshivish school in Lakewood at one point. And there were kids telling me about movies they went to etc. You are going to get that everywhere.

If the parents don't want their girls going to someone else's house, then figure out how to make sure they don't go to that person's house. But you can't control your kids the way these parents think they can. And they're hurting others with their foolishness.

amother

↑ Mintcream ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:41 pm

Sebastian wrote:

I went back and reread it and did not see it. it was a general concern

It did say they were the one pushing for the split but not specifically from Avigayil, though it did say they asked their kids not to spend time at her house. But if she was the one exception to the rule, the parents would have accepted it eventually. They wouldn’t make a whole new school just to split from a good kid.

amother

↑ Turquoise ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:43 pm

Oh and the gumption of the principal to say she assumes Avigael will "go back to her old ways" and that it was all peer pressure to fit in.

Who made her a prophet? Seriously? Some kids change and differentiate as they get older. Differentiation and indivuation from parents is a natural part of being a teenager and it won't necessarily "just go away"!

↑ keym

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:44 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

Im not denying that.

I'm talking about the principal.
I just don't get the feeling that she was this heartless cruel person. Shes being pressured by the board to make the "yeshivish" families happy so they don't split off.
I've seen the level of politics in these situations and I just can't say that the principal is the villain. I see her incredibly stuck.

amother

↑ Electricblue ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:50 pm

keym wrote:

Quote:

“Short of having a new school open up to cater to the kollel crowd, I don’t see another option besides sorting the classes,” I told the board a couple of years ago.

We’d been bandying the idea around for a long time. Some of the board members were very for it, others were more hesitant. But then things came to a head.

It sounds like the principal had a huge role in this decision. I don't think you can pin this on the board. Esp since the principal is the one boots on the ground, and never brought the Avigail situation to the board, but decided to make this huge decision all on her own.

amother

↑ Mintcream

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:52 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

She doesn’t sound so stuck. She sounds like she agrees with the parents. She could have fought back against their attitude and explained the benefits of having a girl like Avigayil as a friend.