Do you give money to your son in Beis Medrash?

amother

Gardenia

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 8:40 am

You keep saying it should be his responsibility because you pay a lot for tuition and he's over 18. If you're going down that road, you also have to have a plan for where he's supposed to get the money from. If the answer is that in his current setup there's no way for him to earn money, which is in fact the case, then you will have to give him money. Meaning it doesn't matter whether you feel morally he should or not, but whether practically he can bring something to the table. And he can't. So you must. I have 2 boys in b.m. and I definitely pay for their expenses. Their current setup does not allow for them to have a side gig, so then it's on me to provide for them.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 8:56 am

amother Lawngreen wrote:

Me too. Probably the only one in my seminary. And my parents are quite comfortable, they just didn’t believe in giving me spending money. This was about 15 years ago
I do think it’s different though, because girls can earn money

Why can’t boys make $? I have one brother who did haircuts, another who walked things to the dry cleaners for others for a few dollars, work in canteen, help wash dishes in yeshiva, their are options during bein hasedarm and bein hazmanim

↑ Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 9:13 am

notshanarishona wrote:

It's much more limited than girls at home who have a whole community looking for babysitters.
There are only so many haircuts to give, my son tried becoming a waiter for a couple years but only a few boys are needed with many applicants so he ended up being a substitute of a substitute, he created himself a job during the summer extension but what he made in those 3 weeks was about double what he made in one night when he served as a waiter for a siyum so it wasn't all that much, he worked as a seed counselor and got about $40 in tips including the Amazon gift card one parent gave (no other compensation), he helped his cousin for several hours when visiting that city in his business and also got a few dollars that way but that's not an ongoing thing at all, not for bain hazmanim (since we don't live there) not during the year when he has 3 sedarim a day even if he was in the same city...
My older son worked in the school for pockets of time here and there bain hazmanim but what he made isn't able to provide for his needs for a year. Three income endeavors are for extras (they want a different phone or buy sushi here and there type of things).

My girls can make a couple thousand a year easily just by being home and available when there's no school (even with a few weeks of camp in the summer)... There's no comparison.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 9:44 am

I'm really not sure what you're expecting here, honestly. You don't get to expect to wash your hands of your obligations the second he turned 18 while also encouraging him to continue attending yeshiva. Yes, you're an adult at 18 and should be capable of independence. By definition, yeshiva doesn't generally allow for that. There's only so much he can make working summers and weekend odd jobs. It's also seems you're not communicating about finances either. You could have told him before this past summer that paid camp is not it anymore at his age, and that he needed to work. You let him have one last fun summer, which is fine, but now that means you need to fill in for the missed opportunity cost.

Ultimately, the point of post high school yeshiva is to learn as much as possible. I assume you want him to ficus on his learning and spiritual growth right now and not on hustling. Opportunities for earning his way are limited, it's not fair to expect him to fund all his costs. You messed up here by not planning accordingly. I'd say cover what he needs for now, but also communicate. How long do you want him to keep learning? How long, realistically, CAN he keep learning? What does he need to do to meet you in the middle? You need frank discussions with him to figure out where to go from here.

amother

Antiquewhite ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 10:56 am

amother Cornsilk wrote:

OP, wouldn’t you give a seminary girl some spending money? Your BM bachur is the same age. If anything, it’s harder on him because he’s likely had far less opportunities to earn money than a girl of the same age.

I actually think seminary is different. It’s a one year time. Girls have more opportunities to earn money in evenings and summers and after seminary.
(My boys are in high school from 7:30-10:30 pm every day including Sunday. 11 months a year)

Boys are doing this for years until they get married. Not just one year.

Also boys in BM typically spend much less than girls in seminary.

amother

Chestnut

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 11:01 am

I give my kids allowance weekly when they turn 5. By the time they finish high school, if they save it carefully (or in the case of my son, invest it well), they each have about 7-10k built up. At 5, we give 5 per week. At 10, 15 per week. At 12, 25 per week. My kids learned money management from this system. They decide whether spending it is worth it and 9/10, they prefer to save. My son starting investing when we was 11. We use the greenlight app and it's awesome for this. My 9 year old has 1,500 saved up already. We want our kids to go off into college without feeling broke and they can add their summer jobs pay into these accounts too. My daughter worked one summer and earned 4500. Her balance is now at 12k, and she's in 11th grade. She also invests conservatively, but there's been growth. Iyh, by the end of high school, she should have close to 20k (if she can earn another 4500 next summer).
I think setting your kids up for success is the most important part of being a parent. Teaching them how to be financially responsible and also to know that their parents are helping them. My kids friends are all telling us how when they turn 18, their parents will cut them off. I'm shocked. How can parents just do that? I get college is expensive and so are wedding and everything else but your still parents! Even when they turn 18, my kids are still mine. I'll do their laundry and buy them food and make sure they can focus on studying and growing into better adults themselves. I think Op needs to be realistic and provide for basic spending money, even if it's tight. He's still your son and he can't possibly learn well if he's worrying about paying for meals and being able to go out with his friends.

amother

↑ Lemon

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 11:14 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

Op stop for a minute and think, who took care of your needs when you weren't earning money as a girl? These posts baffle me, how can a parent just send their child off with all of the expenses and expect them to just figure it out, how?
It sounds self centered when a parent doesn't think of their childs needs.
I always make sure my children have everything they need, yes its hard and yes its expensive but we work extra hard to make it work.

That's a pretty harsh statement! OP is paying 20k in tuition, I'm sure she can think of better ways to spend that money if she was so self centered.

keym ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 11:28 am

This feels like a question that is community/yeshiva dependent.

I have high school age boys. In different yeshivos and different personalities.

Some have more opportunities to earn money than others.

Some yeshivos give more free time to hustle. Some are closer or further away from infrastructure.
One of my sons technically can tutor boys at supper time, but his yeshiva is quite far from residential area so parents aren't going to bring their son.
A different childs yeshiva is near residential areas but can't tutor for other reasons.

But it's also a question for you of priorities and natural consequences.
Let's say you don't give your son any money. Natural consequences is that he might stop learning one seder a day to be able to earn the money. Are you ok with that?
Or natural consequences that he may choose to skip doing laundry, skip a haircut, skip buying fruits or vegetables. Are you ok with that?
Or natural consequences that he may save on Ubers and hitch. Are you ok with that safety wise?

Not as a threat or anything. Just reality.

Part of late teen/young adult is that we can't dictate everything.

Just something to think about.

amother

↑ Cornsilk ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 12:23 pm

amother Leaf wrote:

My daughter went to sem last year and she was definitely not the only girls spending her own $. In the more "upscale" seminaries it's very unusual but in the more OOT/low key sems it's pretty common.

Again, girls have far more opportunities to earn money than boys of the same age. In my community, at least, boys have off only one month in the summer. So for a boy to work summers means giving up his entire vacation to work. A girl can easily work one half from seventh grade on and still have a month to relax from the pressures of the school year. This is in addition to babysitting jobs from age 12 and up. Boys just don't have that opportunity with their long school days, including Sundays.

I'm all for teaching kids financial responsibility and having them use their own money when warranted. (And one of my sons happened to have worked this past summer but I would not actively encourage him to do that every year until he's aged out of any camp, as I do think kids deserve a break in the summer.) But it's not reasonable or very fair for a kid to have zero spending money when living away from home.

amother

↑ Cornsilk ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 12:25 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Because as another poster noted, there's only so many haircuts needed in any given yeshiva, along with everything else you mention here. So yes, a few of the more enterprising bachurim will have steady income throughout their yeshiva years, but most won't. Bein hazmanim $ can only go so far, and is also not doable for everyone.

amother

↑ Cornsilk

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 12:29 pm

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

100%, but seminary is also an extra. Yeshiva and BM are not (in certain communities).

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 1:12 pm

Thank you for all of your replies. As an aside, when I went to seminary I used my own money for spending money the entire year. It was understood before I went that that's how it would work.

To provide some clarity - we bought our son everything he needs for dorming, clothes, toiletries, suits, etc. we bought extras like cereal and snacks b/c he wanted them. He is not going feeling deprived, at all. And also, we have not yet come up with a plan for money. I was asking here, specifically before I make a plan, to find out if it's really true that all of his friends/peers are getting everything paid for by their parents. The answers have provided a lot of clarity. (My son knows our position on money).
He has Bar Mitzvah money but I have always told him it's for when he grows up. I meant more like married, but technically he is grown up. I was hesitant to dip into it, but I see that others do it and maybe we should also.

It sounds like we might be one of the only ones paying full tuition, based on the responses here. We would not qualify for a scholarship since they only look at income, but we have other expenses that aren't taken into account (full tuition for a large family, and necessary therapy for 3 children with medical issues).

For my high school boys we cover their expenses and spending (in addition to tuition), since - as it was mentioned, they are kids and its the responsibility of the parents to provide. Now with an 18 year old it's different. As mentioned he is in Yeshiva - he can't work. But in order for him to stay in Yeshiva, someone has to pay that tuition!! It's a bit of a circular logic. And I don't think it's crazy for an 18 year old to start to recognize that he should take some responsibilty. (For buses and mikvah, nothing major). But if he sees all of his friends not in that position, than you're all right, we will have a problem on our hands.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 1:24 pm

Just reread through some of the responses and have a few comments.
For those of you who mentioned having financial planning and discussions starting young, we did that. Some of the systems here sound better than mine, and I may implement them for my younger kids.
For those of you who thought I was leaving him high and dry, don't worry, I didn't Smile

. I dropped him off with money and had a small discussion about him keeping track of expenses and told him we would come up with a plan in the next few weeks.
In terms of going to camp - that was probably the biggest issue. That did take away his chance to earn some money, but as mentioned there aren't really that many ways to earn money in one month of the summer, and he really wanted to go one last time. That may have been a mistake but I'm happy he had a good summer.

Keym - your comments are really on target.

I'm just really wondering though, so many people are saying - of course you give your kids money even though you pay tuition, what's the question. How are you all affording it? Are most Bais Medrash's much cheaper? Or noone else pays full? These comments are really throwing me off. Where does all that money come from?
B"H we qualify for paying full which is a Bracha, but on the other hand, as I mentioned, we have a lot of medical expenses so it gets tough.

amother

↑ NeonPink

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 1:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

You're wrong! It's not different because he's 18, hes still your child! so at 17 yrs and 364 days he's yours and you're responsible but the next day he's off to fend for himself??
You mentioned you paid your expenses in seminary with money you earned but again your dismissing what all are mentioning here , when exactly was he able to earn money to support himself??
I don't suggest dipping into his bar mitzvah money but rather let the yeshiva know you cant afford to pay for his basic needs and see if they can give you a break which you should pass on to him for spending.
Most of us here pay full tuition because the yeshivos today cant really offer breaks but your situation seems dire. It's either that or youre not in tune with your childs needs