DS's friend went too far--not sure how to handle this

↑ Dolly Welsh

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:17 pm

amother OP wrote:

His mother was watching them. I know her and trust her.

No. You don't know her, you just think you do, and you should not trust her.

She's the villain of the piece.

amother

↑ Topaz ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:30 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

No. You don't know her, you just think you do, and you should not trust her.

She's the villain of the piece.

She’s his enabler. He stands no chance of getting better if she continues with this. OP please open your eyes.

amother

Daphne ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:32 pm

I didn’t read all the responses but I think you’re being way too polite. There’s no reason for them to end things with closure as though it were a romantic breakup. He’s been harassing your son.

amother

Dustypink ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:38 pm

amother Topaz wrote:

What about your kid? Who’s sticking up for him and making sure he gets what he needs? He’s the one who was harassed. He’s the one whose boundaries are being stomped on over and over again. The other mother isn’t entitled to use your son. You need to get experts involved immediately.

I’m not judging you (well maybe a little bit) but you really need to realize that you need to put a stop to this, and that requires an experts involvement.

She has put a stop to it? Have you not read thru the thread??

She allowed him 10 minutes with his friend, and was watching the entire time. And she'd been working on it before friend and mom turned up, hey she posted for advice before that!

amother

↑ Dustypink

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:41 pm

amother OP wrote:

My first priority IS my child. My child is being harassed for weeks with phone calls at all hours of the night. I will do anything to get this to stop and I thought this conversation might accomplish that. Right or wrong, my son's interest was the only thing I had in mind when I didn't stop him from going out.

From your OP and subsequent posts it's very clear that you have DSs best interests at heart, you posted before said mom and kid turned up!

And it's not like you'd not been dealing with it prior.

Not sure why you're getting bashed on here.

amother

Oxfordblue

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:44 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

Am I the only one who sees that clearly this was a romantic breakup? It’s the only thing that makes sense.

amother

↑ Daphne

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:51 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Am I the only one who sees that clearly this was a romantic breakup? It’s the only thing that makes sense.

Yes - the other boy is clearly obsessed. But that doesn’t mean that OP’s son has to indulge him. Even if the friendship crossed boundaries, he’s entitled to walk away.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:15 pm

This has gotten wayyyyy out of hand. The relationship just needs to end. The positive note thing is just an exuse to keep the contact with your son.
You should be making sure your son walks away and has no contact with him whatsoever. I don't care what the other boy "needs". You need to protect your son now.

amother

Holly ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:30 pm

amother OP wrote:

They're in our city for Shabbos so they came today already. Or maybe this is why they came to our city for Shabbos. I don't know.

This boy has psychological problems and is seen by a therapist and a psychiatrist and is on medication. I don't know what his diagnosis is, but there obviously is something there and that's probably what's making it so hard for him to move on. His mother seems to feel that if they talk things out, they'll be able to end things in a way that will enable him to let go and stop harassing my son.

red red red flags. hes trying to manipulate ur son. hes lying that he was hurt all to maintain the relationship, this is very very dangerous. do not allow him to interact with ur son

amother

↑ Holly

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:45 pm

OP - I want u to look at this scenario as if this was a 25 year old male versus a 18 year old male. All the signs point to either a se-ual motivation here or unhealthy dependance. ur son is in his trap, and so is his mom. end this now. get ur DH involved, or some other voice of reason that can see this from an outsiders perspective

amother

Amaranthus

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:49 pm

Op is probably of the people pleasing type and found it hard to create conflict rather than be cordial. I absolutely see a mother who is level headed and has her sons bet interest in mind. She just needs to realize that being cordial might not be enough. I suspect the boy/man needs a stronger more aggressive message. Op don’t feel bad to be stern and tough. You need to cut this short.

(Only thing I’m not yet clear is whether op’s son is also a willing participant in this relationship. If so, it might not be so simple for mama to come in and spook away his friend against his wishes. He’s not a little child….)

amother

↑ Chestnut ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:15 pm

Op, I want you to know that I relate to what you said about not having a second to think. I have been there too. I once had a situation with my oldest dd's teacher where I was put on the spot, it was unexpected, and I just let the situation happen because I didn't have a minute to think. I feel like it effected her for many years and while I know that was her journey that she was meant to take, I've always felt bad that I didn't stand up and do something.
It's many years later and I'm still learning that I always have the right to say, "I'd like to think about it" or "I'd like to speak it over with my dh/rav/mentor" and it's ok if I don't think well under pressure like that.
I absolutely had no intention of hurting you in any way. It's clear that you have your son's best interest in mind. You have an open relationship with your son so you must be doing something right. It sounds like you're a great mom and your son is lucky to have you on his team.

I agree that having your son see someone for a bit sounds like a good idea to help him process all of this. I can't even imagine how invasive it might feel to be harassed non-stop, and to be called from multiple numbers at 6am or 1:45am by someone that you've been clear you no longer want to be in touch with. (Also, I wonder if this guy showed your ds the videos he found.)

I hope you don't mind the question, does your ds have a father in the picture? I sincerely hope this is the last you and your son ever see of this guy, if there'd be a repeat of such a scene with this boy showing up somewhere to speak to your son again, I wonder if having dad, ram, or other men involved would be more effective.

familyfirst

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:21 pm

Op!!
What is wrong with you?!?

Get out- tell him to leave and done!!

You’re way too soft

Your son needs a firm mom to be able to move on

Just do it! And threaten to call the next yeshiva if he starts this shtick again

↑ dena613 ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:41 pm

I'm sorry, OP. I'm really angry with how you handled it.
I feel bad attacking you here because I know it hurts, and I am usually a nice poster, but I still don't think you get it.

This man stroked your sons cheek!!!!!!! He tried to "go further"!!!! Do you know what that means?????!!!!

Since you're old enough to have had a son who is almost 17, I don't think I need to spell it out. I really don't want to.
So I will just say four words:
Mishkav Zachar s-xual Abuse.
Let your mind wander about all the possibilities of what that looks like.

Your son ABSOLUTELY needs therapy to process this.
He sounds very strong and tried so hard to put up boundaries, but ultimately he couldn't kick the other boy off the porch when he was guilted and you didn't stand up for him.

This man can NOT be in the same CITY as your son.
They can't both be in yeshivos in the same city together.

The yeshiva HAS to know they had an abusive predator in their midst because they need to learn to spot the signs so it doesn't happen again. Your son was calling out for help and help was dismal.

I think the abuser's new yeshiva needs to know who they are dealing with as well.

Your role as mother is to support your son. Not the other boy.

Hashem should give you the strength and the sechel to make the right choices.
You need support and IRL advisers.
I suggest you call Amudim.

amother

Mimosa

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:44 pm

Op, your son called the other boy’s therapist?
He has her number?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 10:27 pm

Thanks to those of you who understand why I did what I did. I appreciate that.

I don't have time to answer everything, but there are a few things I want to respond to:

Quote:

Am I the only one who sees that clearly this was a romantic breakup? It’s the only thing that makes sense.

While I can see why it seems like that, I see it differently. I see it as a mentally unwell boy struggling to move on friend a codependent relationship, and his mother (who doesn't know about the physical part) bringing him over to give him closure so he can do so. I don't think he felt any s-xual attraction to DS. I think he saw something inappropriate and got curious and wanted to try it out, and the only one he felt comfortable speaking to was DS. I am extremely grateful to Hashem that DS was levelheaded enough to draw the line there immediately and not get sucked into it.

Quote:

Rest assured there will be no further meetings under any circumstances whatsoever.

Quote:

Only thing I’m not yet clear is whether op’s son is also a willing participant in this relationship. If so, it might not be so simple for mama to come in and spook away his friend against his wishes. He’s not a little child….)

DS definitely was a willing participant in the relationship when it was just a regular friendship. Once the therapist told them they had to completely disconnect, DS accepted that. Despite the boy calling him multiple times a day and at odd hours of the night, he did not speak to him a single time. When they spoke outside last night, the boy's mother suggested they each say something nice about the other boy, and the other boy said that even when something is hard for DS, he sticks to his morals and does not accept his calls. So yes, DS enjoyed being needed, but he has been very strong in avoiding connection with the boy.

Quote:

OP - I want u to look at this scenario as if this was a 25 year old male versus a 18 year old male.

While I understand your point, after seeing the boy last night, I see it more as a 12-year-old pursuing my son. He's clearly immature and impulsive and lacking self-control.

Quote:

I agree that having your son see someone for a bit sounds like a good idea to help him process all of this. I can't even imagine how invasive it might feel to be harassed non-stop, and to be called from multiple numbers at 6am or 1:45am by someone that you've been clear you no longer want to be in touch with. (Also, I wonder if this guy showed your ds the videos he found.)

I hope you don't mind the question, does your ds have a father in the picture? I sincerely hope this is the last you and your son ever see of this guy, if there'd be a repeat of such a scene with this boy showing up somewhere to speak to your son again, I wonder if having dad, ram, or other men involved would be more effective.

DS will be speaking to someone. And yes, DH is in the picture. I doubt they're going to show up again, but that is a good idea.

Quote:

(Also, I wonder if this guy showed your ds the videos he found.)

He did not. He found them on his home computer (which makes me wonder what else is going on in that house, but that's not my problem). DS actually convinced him to delete them, which he eventually did.

Quote:

Op, your son called the other boy’s therapist?
He has her number?

Strange as it sounds, when DS told the other boy he wanted to speak to his therapist, the boy handed him his phone and dialed the number for him. I guess he realized himself he needed help. He's also called DS during therapy sessions since the therapist wanted to hear from DS details about things that had happened.

Quote:

And during the time they were outside talking you could have reached out to others during that time, and then pulled your son away. You had so many chances.

Again, it’s not about what happened so much as it is about how to move forward. What happens if/when they show up again?

They came at around midnight. You can check when I posted they were here. (We're in EY.) There was nobody to call at that hour of the night.

Rest assured, should they show up here again (I really don't think it's going to happen. We're going away for Shabbos and they live hours away), I will not allow any conversation at all between them. If this boy still has unresolved issues, he'll have to find another way to resolve them. Clearly speaking to DS isn't it since that was already exhausted.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 10:29 pm

I see now it was after 1 a.m. when they showed up here. That's pretty crazy in and of itself.

↑ Success10

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 10:52 pm

OP I think you did really well.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 10:59 pm

Success10 wrote:

OP I think you did really well.

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that.

amother

Arcticblue

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 11:03 pm

כל הכבוד
You are so wise and deal with this in such a healthy way. Supporting your son to make his own decisions about what to do. What a great parent you are, I hope I can be as wise as you.
And yes I think his mom is clearly struggling with the whole situation and made a decision she thought was appropriate although she only considered her child's needs, not yours.
If anything else happens eg he keeps calling, I would contact her and explain this is harassment and you could get a restraining order (if there is such a thing in Israel)