Can the older generation alleviate the housing crises?

amother

Skyblue

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 1:48 am

amother Jean wrote:

To me this sounds like a nightmare as an introverted person. When would I get my space, my quiet, the ability to relax and breathe without kids running around the house,or babies crying, setting my schedule around my own needs etc. It's wonderful when my kids move in on shabbos or YT, but it's wonderful when no one is around too. I can't imagine living with all the chaos that go on in young households 24/7. I did my share, now I want to joy the peace and quiet that comes with the golden years.

Isnt that's the next logical step for those who feel entitled to take from others?

I am living this nightmare right now. The children are young now and adorable but the noise and crying is driving me crazy.

↑ DrMom ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 2:05 am

GLUE wrote:

There was a neighborhood in Chicago that had a problem. The neighborhood was turning into a NFRC(natural forming retirement community)the people were living in houses that was getting to big for them, many were on fixed incomes and could not afford their homes. At the same time they wanted to age in place.

With the suburbia of Chicago stretching out to Iowa, there is a housing problem with the city. Finding an apartment in the city is expensive and hard to find.

Someone had an idea they got the home owners to put an apartment in their house. This helped both sets of people. renters got a place in the city to live, and the home owners where able to age in place.

This is not for everyone, but I don't think OP idea that people living in large houses that they are not using to split it is such a bad idea. It can work. I think this is what OP means when she says people should split their houses. Not that they should move out to nursing homes or live in the guest room.

If a community thinks that this is something they want to encourage, they can offer vouchers for renovations (the same way certain communities who want to attract young families offer tuition vouchers). Or some enterprising builder can build high-standard and convenient apartments that would attract some of these homeowners who are looking to downsize.

As a community, you can incentivize, but you cannot guilt or force people into making these decisions.

amother

Bluebell ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 2:08 am

The Amish have a system where the youngest child with his family takes over the main house and the aging parents move into the Daudy Haus, a grandparents house that is often a smaller attached apartment. They contribute to the family by pitching in as long as they are able, and are taken care of by the family and eat meals with them while the young family has room to grow.

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 2:33 am

I would not look to the amish as to how we should live our lives
would not emulate them
and there is a whole package deal that goes along with that piece with serious overall community control from the top
cannot cherrypick
they also shun and ostracize community members who don't make the cut or step out of line or do not follow the many ironclad community rules dictating their daily lives
they even instruct and enforce that family members cut off ostracized family members as in zero contact
their ruling elders rule with an iron fist
totally
not much individual freedom and freedom of choice over there to say the least

if you as an individual wish and choose to do that with your family then gei gezunter heit

we as individuals and as a community and as an Am do best when we follow the Torah
speak with daas Torah

heidi

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 3:51 am

amother OP wrote:

If you're just here to be rude, get off my thread.

Honestly, I'll ask to have it locked if it's going to go down this route. No need for these kind of nasty posts.

Why would I put my grandparents in a nursing home? Did I imply anything like that?

Also, how big is your house, 2000 square feet?

Honestly, you deserve it
Your post makes you sound selfish and entitled
I assume your parents and grandparents bought a house they could afford and maintained it
Now it's your turn.
Move somewhere you can afford to do this
Don't fantasize about kicking people out of their homes.

amother

↑ Vermilion ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:35 am

heidi wrote:

Wow. You sound like an ice cold lady. Op is not kicking anyone out. Can’t you sympathize with the fact that housing has become a real issue for young families?

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 5:22 am

amother OP wrote:

yes, I didn't mention it previously but my grandparents live on a street with so many older people. It's kind of lost it's vibrancy.

When I grew up, we were a mixed neighbourhood with many ages. I used to go to the elderly neighbour to sing and bring cookies etc. It's nice to have a mix. Their street is so eerie...

Please know some older couples don't want the noise and are happy with like minded neighbors. For me personally mixed ages has more pros than cons. But I've heard all opinions.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 5:28 am

amother OP wrote:

Goodness, I did not suggest they move into a nursing home!

I said they can split houses to accomadate their grandchildren.

Reading comprehension on ImaMother. It's really so exasperating to post here! How did you conclude that I want them in nursing homes? It didn't even enter my mind!

And with 40 grandchildren, who gets to move in?

OddoneOut1

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:25 am

Reading this thread as someone from the US- I can't relate.
Americans always have the option of going OOT to stable and more affordable frum communities, and can still be within 3 hours (affordable) flights to family for simchos and big occasions.
Europeans seem more limited in this regard- they have citizenship in smaller countries with even smaller frum communities, where moving OOT is not the wide open West...

While wishing grandparents would accomadate their young ones seems innappropriate to me, what does stand out is that parents who chose to live in quite limited cities in Europe are watching their children struggle in ways that American families wont -becuaes we have easier ways to movewithin the country we live.

↑ essie14 ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:30 am

OddoneOut1 wrote:

A European with EU citizenship can live in any EU country.

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:39 am

Had Op posted about her plight and this issue she would have gotten many more empathic responses and perhaps even some practical realistic solutions.
However she posted in her thread title can the older generation alleviate this crisis. And that is the reason she is getting the responses she is getting.
Someone who does not agree that the older generation should move into their own guest room (!) or basement (!) or otherwise somehow give over their living space to her or some chosen child or grandchild and his or her family at the expense of them and other sibs is not cold hearted.
The coldness really is directed at the older generation.

Ask daas Torah and be the change you want to see. Follow Torah precepts, including kibud av v eim and not coveting and iyH abundant broches for all. The more we follow Torah the better for us and for everyone.

↑ essie14

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:30 am

amother Vermilion wrote:

Wonderful. As jews we require some jewish infrastructure tho, no?

I was responding to someone who said that Europeans are confined to their own country. I was pointing out that's untrue.
They can move to any other jewish community in any other country in the EU.

amother

↑ Green ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:34 am

amother Vermilion wrote:

Unless the buildings are jewish owned there‘s very little chance they‘ll give it out to jewish families. And the families will have to live close to each other if they‘ll live that far away.

Again, this is a very narrow view of how to live. Why does someone need a all jewish building ( which needs a jewish millionaire to buy and rent)?

You need to live walking distance to each other. I can't believe that there is no where in the entire Switzerland where a satellite community can not be established, within an hour to an hour and a half drive of the original community.

If I remember correctly Lucerne has some kind of tiny jewish infrastructure ( chabad, mikvah) and its about an hour from Zurich ( so you can travel for work, school, and kosher food). You get a group of young people to move with a Rav, and establish yourselves in whatever available apartments in walking distance of the shul. Its also so pretty there!

You have a carpool system initially, and once more people the existing main school can establish a satellite school.

Or you can move to Strasbourg, which is far, but still close enough to travel and see grandparents, much closer the the NY people who move to Cleveland (even though everyone is leaving France, but still its a pretty solid community and more affordable then zurich)

amother

↑ Green ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:43 am

OddoneOut1 wrote:

This s not true. Eu citizens can move anywhere in the EU. There are affordable flights in most of Europe, and it isn't that big. For example, the Op in Zurich can easily move to Strasbourg over the border in France which is a 2 1/2 hour drive. Admittedly, the French and Swiss cultures are incredibly different, but there is no reason a group of 50 swiss families couldn't move together and have a Swiss- French community and still be fairly close to home .

And even the ones who choose to move to Israel don't have a worse flight then someone from NY who moves to LA.

As someone with a lot of European family the issue is more a cultural - a lack of entrepreneurship and risk taking that Americans tend to have. There are so many qualities that I love about my European family, but creative solution finding and risk taking isn't something I associate with europeans.

amother

↑ Vermilion ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:59 am

essie14 wrote:

I was responding to someone who said that Europeans are confined to their own country. I was pointing out that's untrue.
They can move to any other jewish community in any other country in the EU.

Not entirely true though, language and culture are vastly different from one country to another, unlike the us…

amother

Papaya ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:10 am

happy7 wrote:

most people that age do NOT want to be landlords and have to worry about construction and collecting rent and worrying about hearing, electricity, and plumbing for another family.
they don’t want the noise of young children on other floors
they don’t want to give up the space they have
they don’t want to give up their privacy
they dont want to share their driveways.
there are so many reasons they aren’t doing this

Plus, the kids want to be hosted on YT and Shabbos.