Can the older generation alleviate the housing crises?

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:06 pm

amother Valerian wrote:

What does the size of her house have to do with anything? She may have been a little harsh, but I think she has a point. Are we really trying to advocate for the older generation to move out so the younger generation can move in? Just take a second to think about how that sounds.

Yup. It’s that attitude and mindset that actually ends up encouraging this generation to continue to feel entitled and expect everything be given to them on a silver platter while their parents and grandparents bankrupt themselves to do so?

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:06 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

No, please no! One can't ask an elderly person to move to a nursing home bec u want their house! Would you like to be asked to move to a house a mile away, because for ex, your kids can walk, so u don't need to live in the Eruv. Family XYZ on the other hand, need to live near the shul.. PLease!

Oy.

amother

↑ RosePink ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:08 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Yes, if possible, the young people should indeed pay for any renovations. There might not need to be renovations.

The young people should certainly take on costs of taxes, repairs, insurance, and food. The old people could just contribute a little to all that, as they can. The house is paid up, remember.

A vegetable garden front and back - yes there are discreet ways to grow edibles even in front - helps with food costs.

You seem like a very sweet lady but your suggestions don't seem to be rooted in reality to a great extent.

A home whether it is completely paid up or just has equity - is a substantial financial asset that is owned by the parents.

And you are essentially saying that the parents should give this to a child and live in the basement or one room.

And even relatively small families have more than one child - so who is the lucky child who gets to effectively own the home before the parents actually die.

Many parents - if able - do help their kids with down payments but do this equally just as most parents split any inheritance equally among all children.

Not to mention the psychological/emotional issues of not longer being comfortable in their own home.

Besides - unless I am missing something - most people I know don't live in Downton Abby Very Happy

They live in three or maybe four bedroom homes in the suburbs unless they are extremely wealthy. And if they are extremely wealthy they probably have provided homes or down payments to their children so no one has to live with anyone as they all have their own lovely homes.

amother

Vermilion ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:09 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Or maybe the current generation can be responsible, work, and support themselves?

Huh?
This current generation is working harder then ever. One income is not enough anymore and both parents work and it still is not enough to put away some money for the future.
My mother never worked and also got a nadden/dowry. We got married very young with zero income and savings. No idea how I‘ll marry off my children. Only Hashem knows.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:09 pm

amother Foxglove wrote:

I think you are over dramatizing the situation on both sides. Who said op is living in squalor? They are not living on slums or on the street begging for a crust of bread.

Children moving away from their parents is not losing them (especially when they are happy to host them for visits!).

And it's not about choosing peace and socializing over family. Sometimes, older adults love spending time around their grandchildren but physically cannot handle it long term. It's not about selfishness. It's just too much for them.

Do you have adult children or grandchildren yet? I feel like you views are based more on fantasy than reality.

OP is living in 400 square feet. With her husband and two children. She would like more children but cannot see anywhere to put them. Both adults are working.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:10 pm

amother OP wrote:

They spent way less too?

They were vacationing every summer... We're stuffed in our small 400 square foot apartment full summer.

I am trying to explain with this and previous posts that I am not entitled for wanting a nice sized family. We do not spend more than they did. We don't eat out, vacation, have a car, buy nice clothes, buy expensive vegtables and protiens. We don't own any furniture.

I just want SOLUTIONS. As a society, what should I do? Any suggestions? We both bring an income btw. And it's not about right now because we're managing in our currant conditions just about. But buying or renting something bigger doesn't exist. There is nothing on the market. That's why I suggested splitting houses.

Parnassah is from Hashem. You’re obligated to do your hishtadlus and the rest is up to Hashem. Obviously this situation is what Hashem feels is what’s appropriate for you to deal with right now. I highly doubt He wants you to focus on getting your grandparents to sacrifice themselves for you.

amother

Teal ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:15 pm

why do you think you will be from the lucky ones to get one of these apartments? and what will you do when your kids grow up? the comunity is growing as everyone has tons of kids and noone moves out. you should care about the next generation and helpbuild up a newer comunity.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:18 pm

A sharp eye should be kept out for any properties near the grandparents coming on the market for sale. The various siblings could contribute to buy it, and use it as needed. The idea of 'how many people can use it at the same time' has to become more flexible.

One reason grandparents want to keep empty bedrooms for their children's visits is because today families don't live near each other. There is something weird and ahistoric about that.

All this running around. Hop on a plane, all seven of us, to go see the grandparents. That's a lot of money out the window, when you could have just lived nearby.

With determination and keeping living near each other as a goal, that could eventually change, and families could live near each other. Visit, and go home to their own beds.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ RosePink ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:19 pm

amother Wine wrote:

My father lives alone in a house that is too big for him, and that he can't maintain properly. We would all like him to.leave that house and join us in Israel, but I doubt that he ever will.

What he can never have in another house is memories. He lives alone, in the house where he lived together with my mother for thirty years. He cooks in the kitchen that they planned together, and where she cooked on a daily basis. He sleeps in the bedroom they shared together for years. Every particle of the house is imbued with her presence. (There are also the memories of us growing up, but he can visit us. The memories of my mother mean more to him.)

You could argue that it's not healthy for him to live in his memories, and there is something in that, but being secure in his memories gave him a basis to make a new life after my mother was niftar. However much we would like him to come to Israel, and however hard it may be in the future if he needs help, I doubt he'll ever leave that house.

My mother died unexpectedly before my father.

He was never particularly into home decor whereas my mother was the prototypical Balabusta of her generation who never saw a tchotchke she couldn't find room for - she loved having objects she loved around her and couldn't resist them.

After her death, my father didn't move a single tchotchke as it all reminded him of her - thankfully my mother had found a good cleaner before she died who continued to come once a week to dust . Very Happy

He like visitors but he also liked when visitors went back to their homes. Very Happy

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:19 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

OP is living in 400 square feet. With her husband and two children. She would like more children but cannot see anywhere to put them. Both adults are working.

I hear that. It's not comfortable at all, but it's not squalor. Op absolutely should find a new place to live. No one is giving her their home.

amother

↑ Teal

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:28 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

in ops community a house comes on the market rarely and it costs an absolute fortune even for rich people and yeah those that can afford it do buy up these house for there kids.

amother

↑ Valerian ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:35 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

OP is living in 400 square feet. With her husband and two children. She would like more children but cannot see anywhere to put them. Both adults are working.

I would like many things as well, but I don’t expect anyone except my husband and I to do our part to make those things happen. Also, I was raised with the idea that “you don’t always get what you want”

amother

↑ Wine

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:38 pm

amother Valerian wrote:

By us it was even stronger.

"I want, never got!"

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:55 pm

Having more kids is not a "want" in the same sense as "I want nicer earrings. Poor me." Having kids is the core thing of us going forward as a people. OP wants to do her job. She can't. And it is not her or her husband's fault. They are not slacking. She is choking on something and we are sympathetic.

This thread is about a problem. And OP is not the only one with this problem. And she has a perspective we can sympathize with.

What are we really on earth to do? Be comfortable?

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 6:01 pm

amother Vermilion wrote:

No, not everyone in this generation is working.

amother

↑ Jean ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 6:04 pm

amother Valerian wrote:

Yup. And I raise my kids with the mindset that they should fulfill their wants without taking away something from someone else.

amother

↑ Valerian ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 6:04 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Again, not all of us believe that having a large family is the ultimate goal. Our job is not only to reproduce. This thread is about a problem, but many of us are telling OP that her solution is not the right one.