Can the older generation alleviate the housing crises?

amother

Wine ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:26 pm

My father lives alone in a house that is too big for him, and that he can't maintain properly. We would all like him to.leave that house and join us in Israel, but I doubt that he ever will.

What he can never have in another house is memories. He lives alone, in the house where he lived together with my mother for thirty years. He cooks in the kitchen that they planned together, and where she cooked on a daily basis. He sleeps in the bedroom they shared together for years. Every particle of the house is imbued with her presence. (There are also the memories of us growing up, but he can visit us. The memories of my mother mean more to him.)

You could argue that it's not healthy for him to live in his memories, and there is something in that, but being secure in his memories gave him a basis to make a new life after my mother was niftar. However much we would like him to come to Israel, and however hard it may be in the future if he needs help, I doubt he'll ever leave that house.

Miranda Wright

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:29 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Today's generation has a much much harder time buying a house than grandparents.

In 1970 median house was $25k and median income was $10k.
So a house cost 2.5 years income.

Today median house is $420k and median income is $58k.
So now a median house is over 7 years income.

And in jewish communities housing is much more.

In 1970 ONE INCOME could support a wife and kids and own a house and a car. Today even TWO incomes can't afford a house.

And the government did this on purpose.
Easier to control a poor population than a middle class population.

We should definitely deregulate large corporations even more. That will fix everything. Once big business owners are able to do whatever they want without government interference, they will certainly implement unselfish policies that enrich and benefit society as a whole.
/s

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:29 pm

amother Wine wrote:

Oh he is happy there and should stay there. But maybe some younger family could move in with him.

amother

↑ Jean ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:30 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

The alternative is to have their grown kids live much, much more cramped and poor than they did, and to fantasize that will be just fine and everybody will be respectful and loving. Well they will be nice, but do you think it will really be completely fine?

And to end up alone. Why did they have kids, to end up alone when old? The grandparents are living in an area the young couple cannot afford, and the young couple will, in time, have to move far, far away. Just have to. HAVE TO. How great is that? It's not.

When does privacy become abandonment?

The alternative is for the younger generation to establish their lives in locations that work best for them.

amother

↑ Wine ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:32 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Oh he is happy there and should stay there. But maybe some younger family could move in with him.

There is no younger family, because we all live in Israel.

I dont think he would want strangers moving in. That would destroy his memories. He doesn't want someone else in his kitchen.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:32 pm

amother Jean wrote:

Honestly, your suggestion sounds like the least pleasant alternative for a healthy independent senior.

A healthy independent senior can enjoy the company, and the feeling of being useful, and the safety.

The joys of solitude are over-rated. Old people love and need the sounds and voices and energy of the young.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:32 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Well, they should see the good in the idea. Certainly not be forcibly shoved.

The alternatives are all bad. These are the alternatives:

One, their kids do visit and stay over, have a nice time, and then leave. But there is an awkward feeling in the air.

Two, their kids do eventually just have to move somewhere far, far away. The grandparents then see their grandkids less and less. The grandparents inevitably age, and their grown kids are nowhere nearby. They are left to the mercy of paid helpers, who are not supervised by family members. That can be unpleasant.

The result can be a lonely old age.

But they kept their precious master bedroom with its nice view and ample closets. They didn't have to scrunch into a smaller part of the house. They had their kitchen, bathroom, driveway and back yard to themselves in peace and quiet.

So it's weighing what is better than what.

Times. Have. Changed.

It's no use saying, "Well we managed in our day." These are new days.

And the taxes keep going up too. It might have been convenient to have the young couple paying for that or part of it. Then there is supervising repairmen, which young people can be better at. Then there is security from crime. Two elderly people with no one young in the house are more vulnerable.

So there are some benefits to moving over.

Every inch of the house that could be considered a niche for a bed, a little nest with its own mini fridge, table, bookshelf and coat tree, should be looked at.

Why would there be awkward feelings in the air when the kids visit? Awkward because the kids are jealous of their space?

Do you have adult children? I feel like you are not understanding the normal dynamic of adult kids visiting their parents.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:35 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

My grandparents got very overwhelmed with lots of grandkids and great-grankids around for too long. Yes, they loved us and wanted to spend time with us but it was too much to deal with all the time. They were very active and social with others closer to their age range.

Ema of 5 ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:41 pm

amother Chartreuse wrote:

The irony gets to me sometimes.
Op has a point. I had such thoughts at times.

I was living in a one bedroom apt with 4 kids while next door (and half the block) old people in big houses.

They have a hard time with their steps, while I am in an elevator building which would suit them better.

Maybe if there would be awareness and organizations to gently help them move and sell or rent their house, it could happen. But we have to be aware change is hard for elderly.

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, should t people get to decide for themselves when they want to downsize?

amother

Dandelion

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:45 pm

Its no one business to alleviate the housing crisis for any body. Its younger people who think like you to tell my parents " This block is not for senior citizens like you " or " You would never sell your house to me becuase you have your own kids." YOu know how hurtful it is this attitude. Where do you expect seniors to go? To a two bedroom condo ? and then what????? Where are there children supposed to come for Yom Tov Or after they give birth? Where should the grandchildren dorm when they come from out of town to Yeshiva? No one is obligated to make room for any one. IF they do so then very nice.. Even if they were to sell where should they go ? a small condo in a frum community costs a lot . This idea is plain ridiculous.

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:45 pm

amother OP wrote:

Right but I would think having large families is a bigger value then hosting occasionally.

I just want to clarify, I am not advocating for communism style forcing our grandparents to move. I just sometimes wonder what they think though because I have seen a couple of people do this selflessly. They bought a small apartment with the money or keep a part of the house for themselves.

Not everyone sees having a large family as the ultimate, best.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:48 pm

amother Foxglove wrote:

I am not saying ALL grandparents have to move over. I mean in SEVERE cases like this post. The OP describes an extreme case. In an extreme case, yes, move over.

When the grandparents are nicely housed, and their children and grandchildren are living in pain, in severe crowding, and in squalor, it is time to not worry about anything else than solving that. If realistically your choices are to have them move very far away to a much cheaper area, essentially losing them, so you that you can see your same-age friends in peace, then, really are you acting like family?

Family put up with midnight feedings, teen years, and the later burdens of the infirm.

That golden sweet spot, when they are not yet infirm, is nice, but can they contemplate in serenity the misery of their kids???

OP says both she and her husband work. They are not dreaming or slacking, they are doing what anybody could do, and they are living in unbearable conditions.

Is it human to not care?

purplejellybean

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

Goodness, I did not suggest they move into a nursing home!

I said they can split houses to accomadate their grandchildren.

Reading comprehension on ImaMother. It's really so exasperating to post here! How did you conclude that I want them in nursing homes? It didn't even enter my mind!

Are you paying for there renovations? No one needs to accomodate any one. It was the same story years ago. They also had a hard time buying . I ask my parents why didnt you buy two houses it was only 300k etc. It was hard then also especially those that came with nothing or no one. Your young, go find some where else to live or make do but its not easy for elder people to deal with noise, construction and permits....

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:55 pm

purplejellybean wrote:

Yes, if possible, the young people should indeed pay for any renovations. There might not need to be renovations.

The young people should certainly take on costs of taxes, repairs, insurance, and food. The old people could just contribute a little to all that, as they can. The house is paid up, remember.

A vegetable garden front and back - yes there are discreet ways to grow edibles even in front - helps with food costs.

amother

↑ Valerian ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:57 pm

amother OP wrote:

Right!! We WANT our grandparents living near us. They are dear to us and we want to pitch in as they age. Speaking as someone who has done a lot for my grandparents and their parents too. It's a family value for us to look after our grandparents. Everyone pitches in. BH BH my family is great in this regard.

But whenver I am there, I can't help but think of those upper floors that are dilapidated and empty.

Changing things around for a very elderly couple is unadvisable as others have mentioned but doing so when the couple is relatively young like 50ish or a little older is more doable. They're young enough to acclimate to new dimensions and they can build their apartment with their new needs iyh in mind.

I know someone who did this very successfully.

I am 42 and I have a 2 year old, and he’s not my only child. I’m sorry, but I’m not moving out of my house in 10 years, or splitting off part of it. If I do that, my older children won’t be able to visit at the same time as each other. That’s not something I want.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 4:58 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I think you are over dramatizing the situation on both sides. Who said op is living in squalor? They are not living on slums or on the street begging for a crust of bread.

Children moving away from their parents is not losing them (especially when they are happy to host them for visits!).

And it's not about choosing peace and socializing over family. Sometimes, older adults love spending time around their grandchildren but physically cannot handle it long term. It's not about selfishness. It's just too much for them.

Do you have adult children or grandchildren yet? I feel like you views are based more on fantasy than reality.

↑ #BestBubby

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:00 pm

Miranda Wright wrote:

The regulations strangle small businesses like by Covid when all small businesses were shut down while only big box stores could be open.

The Billionaire Corporations own the government and are destroying the middle class.

amother

Rose ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:02 pm

I didn't read through the entire thread yet, but I can't help thinking about the selflessness of my grandparents. They gave their (larger) apartment to my parents and moved into a smaller apartment. And some of my friends lived in mother/daughter homes owned by the grandparents... the older generation were so selfless. Nowadays things are different (I'm including myself...)

Cheiny ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

I am writing this due to my very uncomfortable situation. I am literally at a loss.

I come from a city where the young generation does not have where to live. This is not an exaggeration of any kind. There are no nearby places for young couples to go. The community is looking to expand and relocate but there are literally no option. It's not in the USA like Monsey or Lakewood where people can move out.

This is where I start wondering. There are many older couples who have married off their children and are living in huge houses with 4,5,6 bedrooms, huge living dining room and kitchen. I wish those older couples would see their children and grandchildren struggling with raising families in holes. I live in 400 square feet with 2 growing kids. I literally do not have where to put another kid.

If those grandparents would split their houses and rent out the units to 2-3 families (including basement and loft) it would really alleviate the housing crises. Those couples were fortunate to buy those houses when they were young marrieds themselves and now that they don't need it, it would be a great service to put some of them back on the market to sell.

I am thinking of two of my grandparents living in a ridiculous amount of space which hardly gets used. They can keep some parts for themselves and rent or sell the rest. Whenever I pass these huge empty houses, I fantasize.

Most of them have had a double digit family themselves and support large families. Now it's time for us to raise ours. But where?

I just feel so hopeless at the moment. What's going to be? Where should I raise my kids? In my tiny bedroom? Small windows, no porch, no space for my stroller or suitcases.

Or maybe the current generation can be responsible, work, and support themselves?

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 5:04 pm

amother OP wrote:

If you're just here to be rude, get off my thread.

Honestly, I'll ask to have it locked if it's going to go down this route. No need for these kind of nasty posts.

Why would I put my grandparents in a nursing home? Did I imply anything like that?

Also, how big is your house, 2000 square feet?

I think her point is that you don’t realize you seem to be saying the older generation doesn’t deserve to enjoy what they worked hard for and achieved in life, in favor of the younger generation who now expects to be supported in style while they don’t work.