Spin off, taking advantage vs doing business

↑ BusyBoys ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:28 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

That’s YOUR choice, and that’s their choice.
Idk why so many ppl feel so entitled to what other ppl are charging. If you feel like it’s not fair that you’re not making as much, charge more. If you feel like it’s not fair that they’re charging what they are, close your eyes.

100 percent that its my choice.

I am actually finding this discussion interesting and hearing differing opinions.
This was not a personal attack against you and not understanding the defensive tone..

↑ BusyBoys

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:40 pm

keym wrote:

Kol Hakavod for choosing to charge lower.

But here's my issue when it comes to these conversations.
Yes, as a community, I believe we should encourage people to charge on the lower end for the more luxurious needs or necessary wants depending on how you look at it. Things like daycamps and shadows and tutors and therapists.

HOWEVER, we shouldn't be dictating what people can charge, and we definitely shouldn't be making calculations and judgement.
It felt very distasteful when people were saying "charge $10, take 5 kids, and earn $50- that's enough for a preteen girl.

Who says?

You wouldn't appreciate if I started calculating something like $100 for lessons is too much, charge $80, that's enough money for you.
Its inappropriate for me to make cheshbonos on your income.

And for me, that's the part of the thread that rubbed me wrong

You put this down beautifully.

I would never tell someone what to charge. So many things come into play- finances, family, arrangements etc etc..

( I acknowledge that my first written response on this thread was a bit over the top but it wasn’t a personal attack)

Although , there is a fine line that borders on mentchlichkeit. supply and demand is a huge piece and real in business and ok. Then there is something in milking the system and taking advantage- I’m understanding that this thread is discussing that.

I do me and you do you and all’s well.
We can open a respectful discussion though and hear ppls views.

amother

↑ Hosta

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:56 pm

BusyBoys wrote:

Oh wow!
Any targeted lessons or special case? That sounds quite outrageous.

I charge way less for private instruction and have 15 years of experience.

Nope not a special case. Regular private lessons. Last year I paid $90 for half hour so this seems to be the normal range.
You can raise your prices:)

Trademark

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 1:03 pm

I think we can all agree that pure capitalism doesn't work.

It leads to things like the shirtwaist triangle factory fire or child labor. Some regulation is necessary, the question is how much?

The chachamim used to regulate prices of bread and even instituted simple tachrichim because the extravagant ones became out of hand.

There is a middle ground between pure capitalism and communism.

chanatron1000 ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 1:34 pm

The type of regulation matters just as much as the amount. A capitalist system requires laws in order to work in the first place. If there is no enforcement against theft, the market cannot function. If fraud is allowed, that also makes the system not work. But price regulation in an otherwise functioning market leads to surpluses or shortages.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 1:37 pm

You can set a maximum price on labor if you want. But you can't force people to work at the price you set. (Well, you could, with guns and stuff, but I can't imagine anyone here is advocating for that.)

If you regulate, or just guilt trip, people into limiting the price they charge for a backyard camp, don't be surprised when there is a shortage of backyard camps. Because the kids would rather mow lawns, babysit privately, or just not work at all than work for the maximum amount.

2429 ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 2:06 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Right but in the city what I live thats not the going rate. Obviously these men are free to charge what they want , but I am not about to let them use my pool for a discounted rate so they can offer services to the community and charge double what I do.
Similarly, it’s very hard to find a male shadow. Is it ok for someone to charge more just by virtue of being a man, while otherwise these kids will end up being in public school.
There has to be some line between me me me and I can charge whatever I can get and making services affordable and reasonable for people. It doesn’t seem the torah way to take advantage and only rich people can get babysitters, or shadows, or swim instructors.

Yes it is totally fair for men to charge more.
Peoples business is not where they do chessed.
Business prices are supply and demand.

The Torah is not a socialist government .
There is no reason for these male to struggle financially because of your financial restrictions. A shadow, swimming instructor, or a baby sitter are not raking it in. They are trying to make a living wage.

Now if you want to create a tzedaka fund to help pay for shadows a lot of people might donate.
It’s similar to therapy. The good therapist are very expensive.
When I knew people who needed a good therapist I raised money for them.
But I would never blame the therapist for charging to much….

patzer

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 2:17 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

So lets say the going rate for teaching swimming lessons is around $100 an hour. I tried to hire a male instructor but because there are so few men who teach the men who I interviewed wanted to charge around $200 an hour. I didn’t end up hiring them because I am not going to endorse or let someone use my pool to make more $ than I do but according to those mothers who think it’s ok for teenagers to charge whatever amount people will pay, is there something wrong with someone charging double the going rate because of their gender?

LOL ever tried taking a car service to/from the airport?
I've vacationed before; when I travel to/from the airport I'll almost always use a male driver - even when I would prefer female - because women who drive will usually charge twice as much for the trip. They know that those who really want a woman driver are going to pay whatever it takes. Rolling Eyes

amother

Ivory ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 2:26 pm

2429 wrote:

Exactly this I am a therapist. I charge a lot. That’s my parnassa. I don’t charge less in that area or do chesed in that area. I do chesed in a lot of other ways but this is a boundary I need to set otherwise I’ll get taken advantage of and burnt out

amother

Peach ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 4:00 pm

The other thread was discussing something entirely different...
Not sure if you understood the thread bc many ladies were getting sidetracked and not staying on the topic

It was specifically discussing t av camps .
It was discussing 11 yo charging 80 $ for 3 hours
As a pose to charging regular prices bc they feel they can use this very difficult and sad day for klal Yisroel to take advantage of people and make alot of money .
It has nothing to do regular parnassa jobs

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 4:36 pm

2429 wrote:

100% they can charge as much as they want, just don’t come to me and say we want to use your pool and please charge us the minimum so we can do the community a service and then charge $200 an hour. Someone wants to charge that kind of $ they can buy their own pool.

↑ 2429

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 4:38 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

That is totally fair.

↑ chanatron1000

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 4:45 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

It's definitely wrong of them to do that, because they're using your chesed for profit. If it's just business, everyone involved can charge as much as they are able to, including you. If it's chesed, they need to pay it forward.

amother

↑ Ivory

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 4:46 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Because swimming lessons being unaffordable causes people to either go mixed swimming or not learn how to swim. And I do believe that learning how to swim is a nessesity , not a luxury (and that’s why I do my best to keep my costs down and not charge what I could charge. I have a waiting list of several months out and theoretically I could charge more (and obviously we could use the $), but I don’t think it’s the right thing to do to make lessons unaffordable.

Ok but to me $100 a lesson is very very unaffordable and out of reach and for me that’s a luxury even though I think it’s very important. Just saying everything is relative.
But no, if they’re charging full rate they should get discount on your pool

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:30 pm

amother Ivory wrote:

.
First of all,
Its not $100 a lesson, its $50 for a 25 minute lesson, but happens to be I do practice what I preach and offer a sliding scale/ scholarship lessons during the winter . Either way there many ways to make it cheaper such as group or semi private or with a younger less experienced instructor. I wish I could afford to make it cheaper but we have a$500,000 mortgage to pay off for our indoor pool.

allthingsblue

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:31 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

So don’t charge them the minimum. Charge whatever you feel you want to charge.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:36 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

So don’t charge them the minimum. Charge whatever you feel you want to charge.

I did, I was more just curious what people think in general about charging more because you are male/ female and not based on credentials. It just doesn’t sit well
With me.
I did want to hire a male instructor but I am not willing to run my business with separate prices for girls and boys so I am ending up staying with just female instructors for now.

amother

NeonPurple

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:40 pm

Sorry, swimming lessons are NOT a necessity.

Yes, kids need to know how to swim.

No, that does not need to mean parents paying $100/hr per kid during one of the most expensive times of year. There are other ways to do it.

Please don’t turn more things into needs. We have more than enough of those in our communities.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:52 pm

patzer wrote:

No I use uber ( at least for the last 10-20 years)