Spin off, taking advantage vs doing business

notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:21 am

So lets say the going rate for teaching swimming lessons is around $100 an hour. I tried to hire a male instructor but because there are so few men who teach the men who I interviewed wanted to charge around $200 an hour. I didn’t end up hiring them because I am not going to endorse or let someone use my pool to make more $ than I do but according to those mothers who think it’s ok for teenagers to charge whatever amount people will pay, is there something wrong with someone charging double the going rate because of their gender?

amother

Hosta ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:23 am

notshanarishona wrote:

I paid $200 an hour this year for private female swimming lessons in Lakewood. So 200 for a male teacher would be the same as what the women are charging.

mha3484 ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:38 am

Ultimately the world works with supply and demand. If someone is really in demand they can charge more and in our communities men who go into fields that are mostly female heavy are going to be very in demand. I think anyone is free to charge what they want and if people wont pay it you learn to self correct.

BusyBoys ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:41 am

amother Hosta wrote:

I paid $200 an hour this year for private female swimming lessons in Lakewood. So 200 for a male teacher would be the same as what the women are charging.

Oh wow!
Any targeted lessons or special case? That sounds quite outrageous.

I charge way less for private instruction and have 15 years of experience.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:44 am

amother Hosta wrote:

I paid $200 an hour this year for private female swimming lessons in Lakewood. So 200 for a male teacher would be the same as what the women are charging.

Right but in the city what I live thats not the going rate. Obviously these men are free to charge what they want , but I am not about to let them use my pool for a discounted rate so they can offer services to the community and charge double what I do.
Similarly, it’s very hard to find a male shadow. Is it ok for someone to charge more just by virtue of being a man, while otherwise these kids will end up being in public school.
There has to be some line between me me me and I can charge whatever I can get and making services affordable and reasonable for people. It doesn’t seem the torah way to take advantage and only rich people can get babysitters, or shadows, or swim instructors.

amother

Burlywood

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:45 am

BusyBoys wrote:

Oh wow!
Any targeted lessons or special case? That sounds quite outrageous.

I charge way less for private instruction and have 15 years of experience.

I pay $100 for 1/2 hour lesson. This is the normal amount in my community. Some charge more.

↑ BusyBoys ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:46 am

mha3484 wrote:

It’s interesting and I’m trying to understand based off threads like this.

Why are there laws about landlords raising rent ? Or the outrage of housing costs if supply and demand is valid enough to charge as you wish? Is it because of necessity vs luxury?
Isn’t there a yashrus piece that comes into play?

As I said above, I charge way less for swimming lessons than I can technically get away with- based on demand in my neighborhood and not enough of supply. But I should go and milk Jewish families just because I can??

↑ BusyBoys ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:47 am

amother Burlywood wrote:

I pay $100 for 1/2 hour lesson. This is the normal amount in my community. Some charge more.

Are you in Lakewood?
This particular poster I responded to mentioned Lakewood ( that’s where I live)

amother

Hyacinth ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:50 am

notshanarishona wrote:

But that’s how supply and demand works… if he is filling up his schedule completely without you taking his services, why should he lower his price? He’s sought after since there does seem to be a demand in his field. If he has the opportunity to make money and not have to turn customers away (the customers are turning him away due to price) then kol hakavod for him.
No one owes anyone anything. If you can’t afford his prices, that’s on you, not him.
You saying that it’s a “me me me” thing, sounds very much like it’s YOU saying “me me me”.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:50 am

mha3484 wrote:

Why are you giving them a discounted rate to use your pool? They should pay you the market rate and charge what they want and see if they get takers.

I am not in the end, I originally offered using my pool at cost so we can keep costs affordable and offer swimming lessons for older boys but once they are charging insane amounts then yes they can pay full rent.

↑ mha3484

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:53 am

BusyBoys wrote:

I think its a fine line but yes private swimming lessons with a frum male only teacher is a luxury. Not being homeless is more of a necessity. Most people where I live who want to use a male only instructor make groups to make it cheaper. My kids class chats regularly have mothers looking to form groups for lessons. Private lessons are very expensive.

Also I assume that these men who are interested in teaching lessons have other jobs besides for this so it needs to be worth their while to use their free time for this.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:53 am

amother Hyacinth wrote:

Because swimming lessons being unaffordable causes people to either go mixed swimming or not learn how to swim. And I do believe that learning how to swim is a nessesity , not a luxury (and that’s why I do my best to keep my costs down and not charge what I could charge. I have a waiting list of several months out and theoretically I could charge more (and obviously we could use the $), but I don’t think it’s the right thing to do to make lessons unaffordable.

↑ BusyBoys ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 11:58 am

notshanarishona wrote:

I’m echoing this statement es a fellow swim instructor.
In same position. I have so many ppl I couldn’t get to this year and still kept my rates same.

amother

DarkCyan

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:08 pm

people can charge whatever they want.
cleaning help, party planners, therapists, accountants, lawyers, tutors, babysitters, home organziers, influencers, makeup artists etc

(the only ones who don’t charge full price for their time are rabbanim and dayanim, because they don’t want to discourage people from asking shailehs…., and coming from the home of a dayan and living with a rav, believe me, it gets frustrating to see how much free time people get out of the rabbanim and dayanim. the very therapist who charges $250 for a session pays the rab nothing)

everyone can charge whatever they can get for their time

amother

↑ Hyacinth

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:12 pm

BusyBoys wrote:

I’m echoing this statement es a fellow swim instructor.
In same position. I have so many ppl I couldn’t get to this year and still kept my rates same.

That’s YOUR choice, and that’s their choice.
Idk why so many ppl feel so entitled to what other ppl are charging. If you feel like it’s not fair that you’re not making as much, charge more. If you feel like it’s not fair that they’re charging what they are, close your eyes.

amother

Hibiscus

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:12 pm

I couldn't afford private swim lessons for my kids. I took them to a nearby lake and taught them myself after doing some research. It's not brain surgery.
I don't have any resentment against the swim teachers whose fees were out of reach for me.

amother

Junglegreen

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:17 pm

If there’s something wrong with it the person won’t get business. They’ll learn via people’s lack of endorsement that it was too much.

I guess it boils down to asking, though asking directly for something outrageous is a lot worse than someone charging a high amount. But is it really wrong to ask for something outrageous?

I sure got annoyed when someone who I wasn’t very close to asked me in an expectant way to post something on my status. But was it wrong? Hard to say.

Also, the same could be said for charging too low a rate, making others that offer the same service insecure about their price and taking away their business.

At the end of the day the world evens things out.

amother

Smokey

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:17 pm

Omg, I'm paying $70/hour for my son's private one on one male swim instructor. Or $40/half hour. Not in tristate area.
WHY are people paying such exorbitant prices?? Are there no teenage boys in your area that offer swim lessons? Wow, I'm going to highly encourage my teen son to become a lifeguard in a couple years so he can make good parnassa in the summers.

keym

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 12:24 pm

Kol Hakavod for choosing to charge lower.

But here's my issue when it comes to these conversations.
Yes, as a community, I believe we should encourage people to charge on the lower end for the more luxurious needs or necessary wants depending on how you look at it. Things like daycamps and shadows and tutors and therapists.

HOWEVER, we shouldn't be dictating what people can charge, and we definitely shouldn't be making calculations and judgement.
It felt very distasteful when people were saying "charge $10, take 5 kids, and earn $50- that's enough for a preteen girl.

Who says?

You wouldn't appreciate if I started calculating something like $100 for lessons is too much, charge $80, that's enough money for you.
Its inappropriate for me to make cheshbonos on your income.

And for me, that's the part of the thread that rubbed me wrong