Children ordering parents around

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:30 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

The worst thing he can do is push this issue on the kids. He needs to get over it and get healthy yesterday. His emotional issues are not the kid’s burden. This is not chinuch and is disturbing and wrong.

He very much views it as a normal male reaction to being told what to do. He feels any healthy male has that pushback to being ordered around, and that the vast majority of men don't like being told what to do. And that in a healthy relationship no one should be issuing commands to the other. We're a partnership, a team, and we work together to support each other, not tell each other what they should be doing.

I don't at the heart of it disagree. If he were constantly telling me what to do, I don't think I'd like it either, and it wouldn't make me feel like an equal partner. I just personally don't really care if a command slips through every now and then, whereas for him he'll feel it and be bothered.

But hey, I have my triggers too cuz I'm human too and he really works hard to work around mine, so in the scheme of things I don't think this is that terrible.

amother

↑ Jetblack

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

But him freaking out about it from the kids is creating a really unhealthy dynamic. He’s the adult how can he expect kids to control themselves when he allows his triggers and emotional issues to dictate his life? He needs to be a better and healthier role model.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:34 pm

amother White wrote:

So if they sit around crying because of their choice LET THEM!! They chose not to get a cup and be upset, that's ok, it doesn't affect you. If they choose to get the cup, good, they now have a cup.
Don't let their choices affect you more then them!

That's pretty much what I do, because (unfortunately for them) I'm more stubborn then they are when it comes to something I feel is a matter of chinuch. But I was pretty sure that if I come here and say "I'd rather let my kid sit and cry for 5 minutes about not wanting to get themselves a cup then let them order me to get it for them", I would get a huge amount of criticism.

Truthfully if they were to ask nicely if I could get it for them, or be willing to wait when I respond that I'm just in middle of frying the chicken but I can pass them a cup after, that would be ok with me too. But they don't, it's get me the cup and get it now. And I don't feel that that's something I should be allowing.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:37 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

Whoa whoa whoa. No one is freaking out!! It's more that after yet another 5 incidents today, he turned to me (calmly!) and said something along the lines of "I really don't like this dynamic. I don't think they should be ordering us around like this. Even if we're not actually allowing ourselves to actually be ordered, I don't think they should be allowed to keep talking to us like this. How do we change this."

And so I came here out of curiosity to hear everyone's thoughts.

He's actually a REALLY worked-upon guy, he is very measured and considerate, this is probably one of his only areas that he reacts strongly to.

↑ yiddishmom ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

I do this too.

Although, on occasion , I will go get the cup for them after I'm done frying the chicken, even if they are crying and whining.

Depending on the situation.

If I know it's later in the day and he is EXHAUSTED, I give him some slack. It's hard to control ourselves when we are tired. Or perhaps he had something else that made his day tougher than usual.

But as I hadn't it to the child I'll say "Thank you Mommy for getting me the cup, I really appreciate it".
Or something like this: "it's late and you are too tired to get the cup or ask for it nicely, okay. We'll try again tomorrow."

Flexibility and siechel. Trust your own mom siechel.

To me it seems like you are doing awesome.

Good luck!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:53 pm

yiddishmom wrote:

Ok see, I like this too. By nature I'm a stickler for rules, and being a parent has definitely made me work really hard on learning to be flexible and let things go sometimes, even if really -according to the chinuch we're working to instill- this behavior shouldn't be rewarded. I'm working very hard at learning to see the little person inside and make allowances and be more understanding of what else might be at play that is making them behave this way.

The problem I come up against most often is having to make that constant decision of "is this the time I let it just go or is this the time I hold strong because of what it will teach them if I let it go." So I think this is a very valuable thing that I do try to emulate but can always use a reminder about- that it's easier to make the choice to let it go if you communicate to the kid why you're letting it go or what you really would like to see the next time. "I'll get you the tissue this time because I see you're having a very hard time calming yourself down but after your nose is clean and you feel better, let's practice how you can get the step stool and get a tissue for yourself."

I like that it also teaches the kid that even if we want or expect things a certain way, we can make allowances for others when they're not at their best. I would love for my kid to learn, for example, that yes, usually my sister always looks at me and talks to me in a loving manner but she was really sick today and so she got upset more easily and that's why she screamed when I bumped into her, and I can understand that and let it go instead of screaming back. Things like that. That's definitely a really advanced concept but I think I really like the idea of helping them engrain it in their thinking.

AlwaysGrateful

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:11 pm

I am so confused by a lot of these responses.

A five year old is old enough to learn that this isn't the way we talk to parents. And yes, I have older kids (including teens) as well as younger ones. But a five year old isn't a baby, I'm sorry. If my 2 year old says "Wanna cup!" I might just model for her "Oh, you mean Please get my cup for me?" But if a five year old said "No, YOU do it" to me? I'd take that more seriously.

I'm not saying I'd punish for it or anything. But I'd get down on their level, look sternly at them, and say "We don't speak to Mommy like that." Low voice, serious face. I only use this voice and this face when there's something really important I want them to understand.

Maybe followed by something like "You asked for a cup. I told you that you can get it. What should you say next?" and if they don't answer, say "Okay, Mommy. I'll go get it." And react positively to that. If they cry, or continue speaking disrespectfully, I'd leave the room and say "I'm sorry, I don't appreciate when you speak to me like that."

But if they do buy in, then I'd just move on. Put on a smile and move on with the day.

amother

Gladiolus ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:36 pm

Op im just concerned the way you are interpreting their behavior. They are little I think all the ways you have mentioned handling it is great. You are modeling, letting them know the expectation and rewarding positive. Your interpretation that they are “ordering you around” is a little intense. And you need to draw the line. Your kids are little, parenting is only going to get more challenging. You sound a little rigid. Dont go into parenting trying to create power struggles it wont get you very far.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:37 pm

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

I feel validated by this response : )
Like, there are plenty of other skills my kids already picked up on (that of course they don't always stick to cuz there are good moments and rougher moments) but they get the concept and can do it if they want to and the important thing is to provide the intrinsic motivation for them to want to behave in the way they know is proper.

So I wanted to know, if -as I believed- a very nearly 5 yr old should be able to follow the standard that we don't talk this way to a Mommy or Totty, what do other parents do when their kid DOES talk to their parent in this way? How do they follow up on it? How do they get the concept across?

I just really don't believe in the concept that 5 yr olds, or even 4 yrs olds, are just babies and shouldn't be held to such standards. I know these kids are my oldest, so people might feel I have higher expectations of them, but I definitely see it working the other way around as well. My sibling's youngest is the same age as my oldest, and they expect way less of her because in comparison to the others "she's so little!" but I'm like hello, she totally can do XYZ, mine does it with no problem all the time.

If I find out a standard I am working towards is completely unreasonable then of course I need to regroup and set a new expectation. But I'm just not agreeing that this is so unreasonable to work on at this stage.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:41 pm

amother Gladiolus wrote:

Like I wrote earlier, I know I can be a stickler for rules and so this is something I am very actively working on all the time, to be more flexible, and to avoid creating power struggles wherever possible. I definitely can see that between my stubbornness and my kid's stubbornness there is a potential for a lot of power struggles and that's precisely where I've been putting a lot of attention to work on not creating them where there doesn't need to be any. Thanks for the reminder.

Just curious though, how would you view it differently. End result, they're ordering us around. They're likely not doing so with the intention of being chutzpadik or taking over our position, of course, but "giving us orders" is exactly what they're ultimately doing. I would love to hear more about how you would view this behavior differently.

amother

↑ Gladiolus ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

I dont know its rubbing me the wrong way it may be accurate kids do this I just never thought of it as ordering me around. They are asking for things but havent yet learned how to say it properly is more how I view it. So I see my job as teaching them showing them guiding them. Not drawing a line in the sand. This behavior wont be tolerated and by this age they better not be doing it. That kind of black and white thinking is what im referring to

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:58 pm

amother Gladiolus wrote:

I mean, my kid smacks me too when they're very upset- not on my face but on my back, my leg, whatever is in hitting range at the moment. I can view it as "They're just expressing their sheer frustration and anger at me and lacking the control to do it in a better way", which is true but end result they're hitting me and that's unacceptable. Just because there's an understandable reason for a certain behavior doesn't mean the behavior is tolerable.

In this case, they're asking for something but the improper way they're asking is also not an acceptable way- not because of my ego or whatever but because the Torah says they can't. If my two yr old starts to talk to me that way, I will work with it because clearly this is not something I can even expect a 2 yr old to begin working on, but a child who's about to turn 5 definitely has the ability to understand it's not ok, and this is the age where I would start to get serious about "you can't talk this way, we're gonna work on helping you develop the skills you need to control your wording".

amother

↑ Daylily ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 12:06 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes but it's good to take yourself out of the picture sometimes and look at what's driving the behavior, not just the actual behavior. Because sometimes addressing the cause helps the behavior fall away on its own.

amother

↑ Daylily

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 12:09 am

amother OP wrote:

Which one does "YOU do it" fall under, when we ask them to do something. Cuz it could be something like "get yourself a cup", or it could be something like "pass your sibling the blanket next to you" and they'll answer "YOU get it!"

I would be curious about why they're always looking to pass the buck that way. Honestly, as much as it sounds normal and common, there's also a reason they're not just complying and I think that reason is an important piece here.