Children ordering parents around

amother

OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 8:05 pm

What's your method of handling this?
My 4.5 and 3 year old tend to order us around and make demands. For example, if we say "Go get your backpack so I can put your snack in it," they'll retort, "You get it!" If they want milk, it's "Give me milk! Get me my milk! Get my cup and put milk in it!"

To be clear, we don't allow ourselves to be ordered around! We respond to their demands by gently correcting them and rephrasing it for them, pausing to give them a chance to request it properly, and only then giving them what they asked for. And there are plenty of times where they do on their own ask for things politely the first time, and they are so cute with their genuine "thank you!"s. But it's the constant ordering around and the instant "no, YOU do it" to every instruction we give them that's really getting frustrating and annoying. Especially when it's something there really is every reason they should be doing- like picking up their own toy that they want or getting their own tissue, etc. It's not like we're asking them to do stuff because we're too lazy to.

I know I'll get some people telling me that it's normal for their age. But we'd like to start putting our foot down and making it unacceptable for them to order us around like this. My husband especially finds the lack of kibud av v'eim grating and would like to work hard on instilling that respect. He feels our nearly 5 year old should for sure be able to understand the concept that you can't tell a mommy and totty what to do.

Anyone else in this camp, and what was your method for teaching that?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 8:25 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

It is so age appropriate, even for the 5 year old. When they tell you "give me ketchup" you say to them "can I please have ketchup"...... do this whenever they ask/want/tell you things. Model them the right way to say it & they will get it ih. But it's still totally age appropriate at that ages.

Like I said, we do already do that when they ask us for things by demanding. But what's the right response when they order us around or tell us "no, you do it".

Also, at what age would it become not age appropriate?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 9:34 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

Over age 7 it’s less appropriate. They are babies just model and teach them.

What. 7 is huge for that. 7 is old! No, I know there are different opinions on here but if a 6 yr old is still ordering their parent around that's a problem. I would think 5 is already moooore than capable of understanding that you don't get to order adults around, but maybe they're still struggling to control themselves.

My 4.5 year old is not a baby either- already knows so much and already has so many behaviors under control. Of course it's a constant learning path but to say that's just too little to get the concept? I totally disagree.

amother

Molasses

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 9:43 pm

I mean, good for you for already knowing that it’s normally and age appropriate

That said . It is your job to train them as well!
You sound like you are doing a great job. I tell mine “I can’t help you if you whine/yell/ etc.”

You could try telling your five year old “big boys use their manners/ listen to tatty the first time etc…”
At that age he should be developing the self control to do so. Not saying he will do it all the time or perfectly but it’s definitely reasonable to make this a priority to work on.
Also a lot of positive reinforcement when they are doing well.
“I love to help you when you ask me nicely! It makes mommy/ tatty so happy when you do…/ HaShem loves to hear you speak to mommy so kindly…”

You could also try simple ignoring demands/ ordering. Not responding at all, as if you don’t hear. They will get the picture soon enough!!

amother

↑ Jetblack ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 9:55 pm

amother OP wrote:

If you study how the brain works you’ll understand that at this age they see themselves as the center of the universe. It’s normal and ok. You model and teach but you need realistic expectations. You can demand whatever you want until you are blue in the face but it’s not going to get you anywhere. It’s not personal and you both have to stop seeing at is you being ordered around. They are learning how to care about others and not just themselves. You do need to reframe and approach this differently if you want to make progress.

yiddishmom ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:01 pm

When my 5 year old tells me, "No, you do it" there are two ways that I usually respond:
1. If it's something for himself, for example, he wants a drink and I ask him to bring his cup, I'll calmly tell him "You want a drink, please go get your cup."

2. Sometimes I will hear him out, but ask him to rephrase. Let's say I asked him to get me a diaper for baby and he says I should do it
"You are having fun playing the game and don't want to stop in the middle to get the diaper? That's okay, please say 'Mommy, I'm busy playing, can I help you a different time".

Sometimes I let him get away with it, and other times I will still insist he do as I ask.

Sometimes I'll say:
"We all share responsibilities as a family and we all try to help each other out. Please go get the diaper. Thank you."

And to be honest, I'm human. Sometimes I don't say it so nicely when my patience is running low.

Good luck!

amother

Topaz

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:06 pm

First of all, notice how you and your spouse speak to each other. Kids definitely copy. Then either say, "how do we ask nicely" or tell them what they should be saying and show manners yourself. I have an almost 4 year old. When she acts out she is almost always imitating someone else. Certain behaviors we discuss, others have consequences. We don't let hitting or biting. Ever. Pushing we discipline if an injury occurs. Pick your battles.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:12 pm

yiddishmom wrote:

So funny cuz this is most in line with what I've been doing. Option 1 is exactly what I do, and I've just started using the "we're a family and help each other out" line. I'm pregnant and my kids are beyond thrilled about it and can't wait. But we had several talks about how a mommy's body has to work very hard to grow a baby and that's why I'm a lot more tired now and things are harder for me, and so it's nice to help out. For the most part that really gets thru to my kids, cuz like I said, they are very excited for the baby.

I'll keep in mind about option 2 and rewording.
When I ask them to run errands for me, I'm more understanding of them just not being interested, and so I try to phrase it as "who wants to do a mitzvah and get Mommy the wipes" so I'm not giving an order for them to refuse. And I do make sure to tell them how happy and proud I am when they help us out.

It's scenario 1 that bothers me more- this is your backpack or your shoes or your cup, if you want it you need to get it yourself, not demand I get it for you. So yes, I do tell them that, but I was wondering if there is a different response I should be using, or if we should be taking a harder line about it. Especially because it sometimes turns into a whole thing- my kid needs a cup, insists I get it, I don't feel I should be having to stop what I'm doing to get it for them when they know exactly how to get one for themselves, and they'll just sit there at the table crying for the cup.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:14 pm

amother Topaz wrote:

So that's what's odd about this. My husband has a thing about being ordered around, it just really gets to him, this has come up lots of times in the beginning of our marriage, and we both learned to be really careful to always phrase things as requests, we never order each other around. It bothers me less and so I'm less on edge about the kids doing it, but it really raises his hackles. So I don't think it's coming from them seeing it around the house.

amother

↑ Jetblack ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

The worst thing he can do is push this issue on the kids. He needs to get over it and get healthy yesterday. His emotional issues are not the kid’s burden. This is not chinuch and is disturbing and wrong.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:19 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

I agree with all of this as well. Like I said, I do feel that even if my child doesn't have the self-control to stick to it, it should at least be very clear that this is the standard to work towards.

My kid came out of bed for something earlier tonight and out of curiosity I asked, "What was the rule Totty told you tonight?" and my kid replied "Kids can't tell mommies and totties what to do." I said, "Right, why?" "Cuz mommies and totties are in charge of the family." Very Happy

So they get the concept of the rule but I do expect it won't be easily mastered. But we can refer back to it as needed to explain why I'm not doing what they demanded.

I do work hard to notice the good and verbalize how proud it makes us, Hashem, etc, but will definitely make sure to give special attention to this now.

amother

White

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:25 pm

amother OP wrote:

So if they sit around crying because of their choice LET THEM!! They chose not to get a cup and be upset, that's ok, it doesn't affect you. If they choose to get the cup, good, they now have a cup.
Don't let their choices affect you more then them!