Do I need to tip? | Imamother

amother

↑ Diamond

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 3:31 pm

yamz wrote:

First let me say that I detest the whole tipping culture in this country. I would strongly prefer if all service providing establishments charged what is necessary up front to pay their workers a fair wage and be done with it. Why are consumers getting nickled and dimed at the end of the transaction? I managed to pay for camp/school/haircut/ restaurant meal, but I'm not really done paying. And why do consumers have to carry the additional mental load of tipping? Furthermore, why should the actual service providers be subject to whims of customers for their pay?

All that said, am I missing something here? Why is it that day camp counselors and junior counselors don't need tips? They are paid laughably small amounts of money in more right wing/yeshivish/chassidish schools. The premise being, that the rest will be made up in tips. However you feel about this payment system, you knew about it when you registered your child for camp. By not tipping, you are taking advantage of the teen counselors doing a largely thankless job - because they have no leverage, no position of power to complain about their pathetic wages from the camp, and they obviously can't force parents to tip.
For their part, camp directors claim they are doing the parents a favor by hiring their children so the parents don't have to pay for sleep away camp. They refuse to recognize the exploitation of child labor.
Lastly, teens don't have many available job opportunities. So unlike a waiter or a teacher or a hairdresser, they didn't exactly "choose" the counselor job. One cannot justify not tipping by saying these kids should have chosen something different, it's not my problem that this is the job they chose to do. That attitude just feeds into the exploitation.

I too have several children attending camps and do not have extra money for tips, but I view the minimum tip as mandatory - particularly in a day camp setting, where counselors really are teens and are not at least enjoying the benefits of sleep away camp grounds.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words. My teenage daughters thank you.

amother

Tulip

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:04 am

I vote better to give something and a nice note than nothing.

I am a preschool morahs in a day camp. just so you know, I make $2,000 for the month for my job (ok, plus one kid is free in daycamp). Considering I have a master's degree, that really isn't a lot. Also, it all goes to my bungalow. So the fact that they're requesting $25 tip for me (and $20 for my assistant, a teen)... just realize, I am not paying much. It isn't easy to run after preschool kids in the hot sun, esp while I get to see the mothers are lounging around all day by the pool. I'm happy they're on their vacation (though I am sure many are working, including you, as well.) But if you are able to show SOME SORT of hakaras hatov, try your best.
that being said, if they're asking for tip for head counselor, bus driver and lifeguard who have 300 kids under them, I wouldn't feel obligated. unless you can. it's the people who are involved the most with your kid , who knows his name, deserve the most appreciation.

amother

↑ Lavender

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 12:31 am

amother Tulip wrote:

Some might disagree but tipping an adult Morah whether married or not who is obviously relying on the income to make a living is very different than tipping kids whose needs are bh met by their parents. The money someone is tipping and now buying less food for her kids that week or one less outfit is going to a teens night out with friends or a designer bag or sweater.

amother

Eggplant

Wed, Aug 14 2024, 5:20 pm

This year, tip what you can. But for next year and beyond, get together with other camp parents and ask to meet with camp leadership to discuss the counselor and staff tipping model and what you can do to make sure counselors aren't reliant on tips and so that different counselors don't get paid different simply on account of differing tips. Advocate to change the payment model! It's not a good or fair model in a camp setting because counselors told to expect tips are going to give more attention to those kids of parents they think may tip more than others, and you don't want that dynamic at camp.

And, if the camp has a budget that can be shared, take a look at it. Where are the camp fees you're paying going? How much financial aid is available? How much did you get, if any? Why can't they pay the counselors more to avoid the awkward counselor tipping ask every year? If the counselors are being paid a legal hourly wage for seasonal workers and the budget is adequately paying them as much as the budget will allow, then they need to raise camp tuition, in which case you'll be paying more upfront without being asked to tip on the back end, in theory. Maybe camp tuition is too low, lower than other camps, and you just don't realize it. And if tuition already feels too high, then organize other parents to fundraise during the year for additional counselor pay in exchange for ditching the tipping model.

I worked as a camp counselor for a number of years when younger, and the camps I worked at did not have a tipping model - nobody tipped counselors or staff, the concept didn't exist. And we were not paid well at all - I think I made $1,600 for a whole summer, 9 weeks. But counselors didn't work at camp to make money, they worked at camp because they loved camp, loved the kids, and wanted to spend their summer there. To the morah above making $2,000/month + getting to send a kid free to camp, honestly, that doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. You're saving at minimum $1,000, probably more, on camp fees for that child? Frum camps tend to have somewhat lower camp fees than other non-frum Jewish camps. And it makes sense, frum families have more kids, so those fees add up more quickly. But the trade-off is requiring cheaper labor, typically teen girls, and the tipping expectation to make up for this reality. The only other solution is raising camp fees or doing more fundraising.

amother

Cyclamen ↓

Wed, Aug 14 2024, 8:38 pm

yamz wrote:

Also to add a lot of teens don’t even want to work these low paying jobs in day camps but are forced by their parents because they can’t afford camp, as was the case of me. I also only got $100 per half from the camp and was definitely relying on tips. Thankfully most families gave higher than the recommended amount. I don’t think I’ve ever received lower so I’m surprised by all these responses.

amother

↑ Cyclamen

Wed, Aug 14 2024, 8:39 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Only $1600??? That’s a ton! I only made $200 for 9 weeks!!

amother

Burntblack

Wed, Aug 14 2024, 9:30 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

This is no better than the schools that pay single teachers last.

There are plenty of girls using the money for their needs- waxings, a new school sweatshirt that isn’t totally washed out, school shabbaton, saving to go to seminary.