Rabbi's shiur & sisterhood event problem.need advice

↑ watergirl

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 3:22 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

Wow this is super wierd.

I think the wierdest thing is insisting on a pool for a shiur.

I dont see the connection.

It wouldnt make me come to a shiur just because someone has a nice pool.
If I was thinking of going and they didnt have AC might put me off tho.

Maybe the rabbi is trying to appease the bigger donors in the shul and that just so happens to be the pool owners. I can't think of any other reason he would insist to have the shiur at their homes. "Wanting to hear the pool" and sitting outside is just his excuse for limiting the shiur to the wealthiest families.

Just a speculation obviously.

Rosanna

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 3:30 pm

watergirl wrote:

Ask culture vs. guess culture. Look it up.

It is not always ok to just ask, thinking "what's the worst that can happen, she can always say no". "It can't hurt to ask". It's not true. Asking CAN hurt. You should not ask someone to do something that will matriach them in any way, it's putting the onus on them.

If the pool is not offered, it's not right to ask.

Watergirl I actually did look this up and feel so validated that it's a thing. There are some people that ask and push boundaries with their requests and I actually stay away from them because it puts me in such an uncomfortable position either having to put up boundaries and being the bad guy or relenting and feeling steamrolled. Easier to just not get involved.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 3:38 pm

Rosanna wrote:

I think it depends on how you ask, if you preface with "please feel comfortable to say no, but your pool looks so inviting, we'd love it if you would consider letting us swim for a bit, tops half an hour, after the shiur. Again, I know its asking a lot, so please, its ok to say its not convenient.

Again it depends on the number of the group - if a lot then dont ask.

amother

↑ Chicory

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 3:53 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

How in the world do women change into swim clothes and use the pool in a small amount of time and with limited bother to hostess?

So inappropriate for a shuir. I think you are going to end up with ladies coming in swim attire.

Odelyah ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 4:10 pm

watergirl wrote:

I was thinking something similar but not about appeasing, more like maybe he's trying to get them more involved in general. OP said they only come if they are hosting, so this is way of bringing them in, getting them to come to his shiur. That was my thought. But if the women who are miffed are equally wealthy but don't happen to have pools, then that wouldn't explain this. If they are not, then I stand by my theory Smile

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 4:39 pm

amother Chicory wrote:

I dont get the shiur in the heat thing, air conditioning is the way to go, if you ask me. So I personally dont get why its appropriate to hold a shiur outside in the heat besides a pool, when the woman can only see but not refresh themselves in said pool? But the women attend, so I guess its ok for them.

Of course the hostess doesnt have to open her pool to her guests, the shiur is intended to be a shiur not a pool party, but I understand OP feelings. I imagine chalashing after a shiur and yes, a quick dip would be a mechaya.

I would never in a million years imagine women coming to a shiur in swim attire, but if you say your crowd would do that, then yes, it would be inappropriate.

Again it all depends on the size of the crowd and if the hostess is amenable. If the hostess doesnt want, then no.
I would not go to such a shiur by the way.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 4:43 pm

Odelyah wrote:

But f they only attend the single time they are hosting, then what have you gained. Hurting the faithful ones by trying to appease those who are one and done?

If its done for money or donation, then what message is the Rav giving?

I guess its true, we take for granted those closest to us, and run after those who dont value us.

Raisin

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:26 pm

This whole thread (and some others) remind me of the books by Tova Mirvis. Or the Saturday Wife by Naomi Ragen.

Maybe Naomi Ragen started this thread for material for a new novel.

Coming soon to a bookshop near you: The Sisterhood - a Story of Sun, Money and the Stolen Yom Kippur Seat. Set in a southern city, this story explores the dynamics of a small town Orthodox congregation led by their charismatic, learned but yet deeply flawed Rabbi Katzenelenbogenstein. Dena, a feisty mother of twins, and Mindy, an entrepenurial grandmother of sixteen, two of the female congregants, lead a quiet but efffective uprising against the wealthy women in the community who they feel are dominating the synagogue, and Rabbi K's attention.

Beautiful

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:50 pm

Raisin wrote:

I love your title! And I would definitely read the book if you wrote it!

↑ Odelyah

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:21 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

yes of course my theory is that he hopes to get them more involved, that after they host they will start coming even when they're not hosting. whether or not that actually happens is another story. And who knows if I'm even right--maybe he really just likes giving his shiur outside by a pool. But regardless, he obviously he needs to know that people's feelings are hurt, and that it's too hot. It's unclear whether that's been communicated to him in a respectful but straightforward manner. if it hasn't, I'm not sure why, but it needs to happen.

amother

Crimson

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 7:03 pm

This whole story is strange. Why does the Rabbi need to speak by the Pool? Does it relax him? ok then maybe ok. Why do women think they can use the Pool after the Shiur. What if there is no changing area, you think the Host wants 20 ladies going into her home with wet clothes/bathing suits and to use the bathroom? it sounds weird. Is it hot outside (Miami) with no AC so people don't wanna come and listen? That I understand.

Cheiny ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 7:06 pm

amother OP wrote:

During the summer, our Rabbi gives a woman's shiur in different locations. I think to encourage more people to come. The shiurim are currently outside at a table by a pool at different member's homes. These homes have beautiful pools and backyards. It is very generous to allow the use of their backyard especially when these women don't attend the shiurim regularly, just when they host the event. But, the attendees are not offered to swim after the rabbi leaves. This upsets some (many?) attendees as what is the point of us sitting in the heat and seeing the pool if we can't swim (and have women only swim time)after the shiur? It is uncomfortable for some (has been mentioned to me) to attend because it's a tease- here is a pool and you can look at it in the heat, but you can't use it. Also, at least one member offered her outdoor area for the shiur, but rabbi did not want it because it did not have pool. We tried to convince him but to no avail. This woman was very upset. At least one regular attendee won't attend when the shuirim are held at these locations. I know at least 2 women who attend the shiurim on a regular basis throughout the year who would like to host the summer shiurim but do not have pools. It upsets me that the rabbi is not aware of what is going on with this situation and does not realize how upset the woman was when he declined her offer to host at her backyard without a pool. I do not know how to approach this with the rabbi. or should I approach sisterhood? should I stay quiet? Any suggestions?

The whole thing sounds beyond strange on many levels.

First, how does anyone believe that there’s an expectation on a host who happens to have a pool to invite everyone to swim in the pool after the Shiur?

And not wanting to hold the Shiur in a home without a pool is beyond inexplicable.

I think you should try to get a few other women who agree with your position to join in having a meeting on these issues. There’s more power in numbers.

Last edited by Cheiny on Wed, Jul 24 2024, 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Cheiny ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 7:10 pm

amother OP wrote:

Rabbi likes to do something different in the summer and he likes to be outside and hear the pool. I think it is to entice more people to come to the shiur. It is just upsetting that it is held only in homes that have a pool, yet we can't use it. My friends want to host at their homes, but he said no. And if can't use pool, why are the shuirim there? These women attned regularly while the hostess only join shiur when at their homes. It is upsetting that he does not "get" the situation.

To me it makes no sense that a pool, which no one will be using, would be more of an attraction to bring more people in.

For me the attraction would be the air conditioned inside of a house.

↑ Cheiny

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 7:16 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

No. Just no. That’s too big an ask.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Thu, Jul 25 2024, 5:29 am

Cheiny wrote:

No. Just no. That’s too big an ask.

I guess we run in different circles, because by us, it would be such an easy ask. Not a big deal at all or too big an ask.... If the pool is available (I.e. isnt reserved or being serviced), there is no reason not to share and let the women swim. People who put in pools want them used, and enjoyed and love that they can make people happy with little effort.

imaima

Thu, Jul 25 2024, 5:43 am

amother OP wrote:

Why are you judging me during the 3 weeks? I think there is a nicer way to have expressed your message.

no one is saying lashon harah about these women. People have mentioned it to me because they were upset and hurt. I think it is a big ask to ask that 15-25 women use their pool.it would be nice if they offered , but they don't. so if pool is not being used, why is it at home with pool? it would be nice if regular attendees could host their shiur mates. it is upsetting to those who attend regularly that their home is not good enough. situation is with the rabbi and him not understanding what is going on. I do not know how to handle this. I am anonymously posting and trying to leave out identifying details.

Nothing that you or other ladies in your community say is offensive or hurtful. Why can’t you speak openly with the rav? It is better for everyone if the situation is clarified