There is no school for you

amother

DarkRed

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 4:56 pm

I’m sorry, the pain is real. The future which you are blindly grappling with is beyond tough.

Can you hire a professional just to oversee his success in the yeshiva that you feel is most suitable for him. The professional will be “an assistant principal “ and the school can use him for whatever projects they want. He’s the principal who your son is sent to, he’s the guy that supports the teachers. That way when your son need more support he’s not the school’s headache.

Can your son be taught skills so that he doesn’t run into trouble in a school setting?

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 6:21 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

There is support. There are options. The main issue is that these kids “know” they’re just like everyone else and getting any support is offensive to them.

I disagree. Can you name me a school or program that is targeted to or has a good program for kids with HFA who need to be around mainstream social models and to have a high level academic curriculum with a core of motivated students, and has social skills and behavioral support? If there are any, there are very very few. Many dump them in with kids with adhd and/or conduct disorders who are not motivated (yes, you can have hfa and adhd- that's not what I mean.) And most mainstream schools don't want to deal with the necessary accommodations, shadows, etc.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 7:44 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

Schools aren't custom made to the individual. Individuals generally learn to adapt to school. I don't know if he can adapt. OP what went wrong last year?

Last year he was in a small, alternative yeshiva. He was very upset about that. He stopped going to seder after a few months (because it wasn't the "right" Chabad yeshiva seder) and learned on his own, but at least he was in yeshiva.

It has a very nice hanhala but they have a hands-off policy when it comes to interactions between students. I don't know what happened or who was most at fault, but my son was beat up a few times. His suit jacket was completely destroyed. The hanhala didn't get involved. One night my son called me and said he got beaten up much worse and is never going back to the yeshiva. He went to the local shul and stayed there until I came and picked him up.

In his previous yeshiva there was some bullying, there were some issues, but he went to seder almost every day and made it to the end of the year.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 7:57 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

This situation is extremely painful. But what is your long term plan? Even if he magically gets into his perfect yeshiva, what will happen at the next challenge?

Have you gone to therapy, spoken to experts about your child to learn how to teach him the skills he needs for life? If he won’t go to therapy or take meds, you need to learn how to teach him what he needs.

I don't have a long term plan.

He won't learn anything from me, especially not now when he is convinced that it is my irresponsibility that is causing him to be (not for the first time) to be without a yeshiva when it's already summer.

My short-term goal is for him to spend time in a relatively positive environment, then hopefully be able to get our relationship to a place where he might actually listen to me and consider speaking to a (Chabad male) therapist who can teach him skills.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 8:15 pm

amother Marigold wrote:

This. A lot of kids have to change and adapt themselves to fit in in school and it’s the parents job to help if they’re having trouble.

You can't help someone who refuses to be helped, and a child can't even try to adapt to a school if he isn't in one.

Most mesivtas are not known for their stellar communication with parents, and my son is not terribly open either, so I tend to find out about problems after it's too late to do much about them (if anything). Not that I can necessarily do anything about it at the time either... but I can at least explain to him what behavior is expected, if I know what the issue is.

amother

↑ Magenta ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 8:29 pm

amother OP wrote:

You can't help someone who refuses to be helped, and a child can't even try to adapt to a school if he isn't in one.

Most mesivtas are not known for their stellar communication with parents, and my son is not terribly open either, so I tend to find out about problems after it's too late to do much about it (if anything). Not that I can necessarily do anything about it at the time either... but I can at least explain to him what behavior is expected, if I know what the issue is.

I have a son similar so I know very well that it's impossible to help him, it's like hitting a brick wall over and over. He also doesn't tell me much or a warped version of events which I find out months later wasn't exactly truthful.
I can just see him deciding he doesn't have to go to seder anymore because of some injustice or (il)logical reason in his brain. This past year I promised him a new sefer every rosh chodesh if he had good attendance the month before. He actually went along with it.
OP you cannot do this alone. He needs to be in yeshiva and you need more people on your team: your husband? Rav? Mashpia? Community advocate? How many people can help you push him into a yeshiva?
Suffield is intended for top learners who need some flexibility. Can you push there?
Cincinnati has a wonderful atmosphere, can you try again?
Oholei Torah is a possible option but I don't see him getting along with the boys there.
Israel?
Postville is not high level learning but they are flexible and understanding.

My son like this goes to a local yeshiva because he refuses to dorm away from home. It hasn't been pretty but he knows that zal means away from home.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:01 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

My husband is on my team but he doesn't have connections either. I doubt either my or DH's mashpia has unusual pull into any school.

We pushed for Suffield. Spoke to the top people. Got a very clear no, with an explanation. Same for Cincinnati. Rabbi Avtzon gave us time and explained himself, was very nice, actually took the time to offer an alternative. But a firm no also, even after I offered acceptance with conditions.

I agree about the social issue in Oholei Torah, that was Rabbi Markowitz's concern also. But it is a good match in other areas, assuming he can get into the higher track.

Israel is a hard sell because of the halachic issue, and I doubt I can get him to consider Postville because it doesn't have a "top yeshiva" reputation. I don't think most Israeli schools have Americans which will not be a social benefit.

sjonah99

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:18 pm

OP, this resonates. Many details are exactly the same for us, including Chabad, including all the obviously unrealistic suggestions like Darchei etc.
The fact is, we do not have enough schools, and we do not have THIS school yet.

Somebody sent me this post, thinking that I wrote it! So, if you'd like to reach out I can share some of what we've managed to figure out, or at least we can commiserate.

amother OP wrote:

Dear son,

There is no school for you.

Perhaps it is my fault
Because as a toddler, I suspected something
But was told it was nothing
And I wanted to believe them
So I did.

Then, when it was clear it was something
I tried to find a therapist you'd speak to
I paid thousands for an evaluation
But kept hitting dead ends
And I gave up.

Now, you are a teen.
You've been through two mesivtas so far.
One, you made it till the end
Though barely
The other I had to pull you out.

I tried to get you into another school
But schools don't take boys in the middle of the year.
Or at least so they told me.
Maybe it was just a nice way of saying no, we don't want you.
(It wasn't so nice to mislead me.)

I applied to more than a few.
They strung me along for weeks or months
Before giving that no.
I asked for other suggestions, but they were not helpful.

Am I bad for wishing sometimes you had something more obvious?
There are schools for Downs
Schools for at-risk teens
Schools for kids who don't like to learn.

But for you...
Because you love to learn
Because you are still strong in your Yiddishkeit
Because you have high standards for yourself

But also, you have something
Maybe HFA (you tested borderline)
And probably some ADHD (but by now you refuse therapy or meds)
Because you are not good socially
Because you will get teased
And you will lash out in return

Because you are not an easy bochur
They don't want you.

You still don't know why.
I've tried to shield you.
I've taken the blame
I've taken your anger
It's because I applied too late
Because they are full
But inside I know the awful truth:
They don't want you.

And now, my only hope is to find a school
Just one school
That will tolerate you.

I can't send you to the schools for kids at risk
Because you don't want to be there.

Because you see yourself as a strong learner
Which you are
Because you see yourself as firm in your Yiddishkeit
Which you are

This time at home should be, could be productive time
I could work with you on skills
I could try to find another therapist
But I can't
Because your anxiety about having no school
Makes you tense and volatile.

And I have to hope
That you will never know
Never find out
That there is no school for you.

amother

↑ Magenta ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:23 pm

amother OP wrote:

I hear you. It's so difficult.
You know what I did when I didn’t know where to send my kids to school. I told them we'll write to the Rebbe and the Rebbe will give us a bracha wherever we're supposed to go. This way the attitude isn't where do I want to be but where does the Rebbe think will be best for me to grow into the best person.

Is your son home for the summer? What has he done for the rest of the past year? How has he been spending his time?

amother

↑ Electricblue

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:27 pm

amother Hosta wrote:

My child is mainstreamed. The aba therapists and bcba are paid through insurance. I wouldn’t say the school does a ton but the principal is very supportive. That said, my child doesn’t bother anyone else.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:30 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

We've had that conversation a few times. Don't know if it penetrated.

He is home (since before Pesach). He doesn't follow any schedule, wakes up whenever, davens, learns, Chitas, watches Rebbe videos and post-Gimmel Tammuz videos, goes on 770live and JEM and RebbeDrive (we have heavily filtered internet at home). Annoys his siblings, farbrengs with my husband, complains to me.

amother

↑ Magenta ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:44 pm

amother OP wrote:

He does better than most kids would at home. My son would be in bed on his phone all day. Can you pay an older bochur to learn with him a few times a week? Perhaps online shiurim?

By any chance does he enjoy chess? My son's only social interactions came from chess games at recess.

I don't know who Rabbi Markowitz is at OT. I have emailed Rabbi Silman the principal directly and he responded.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:51 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

Rabbi Markowitz is a chinuch consultant, not directly involved with OT.

My son might have been on his phone all day, but he has a dumb phone so it's not too exciting. He's on the computer plenty, though at least not on anything bad.

He plays chess on Nittel Nacht Smile

Don't know if he'd be interested at other times but nobody local to play with (no local Mesivta so nobody his age around).

I will try emailing Rabbi Silman.