Where did I go wrong? Or did I? Be honest but gentle please

amother

↑ Offwhite ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:05 am

amother Thistle wrote:

Op,
I only read the first page of replies and I want to say I disagree with almost all of them.
You handled this fine and a 10 year old going to sleep at 8:40 is late in my book. My 9 year old comes in about 7:45 and is in bed about 8:15. During the year it's earlier.
I don't think the situation would have played out any different in my house down to my dh coming in after saying maybe she is hungry (he would for sure do that!)
I wonder how old you are and the ages of your kids. For reference, I'm almost 40. My oldest is 17.
I believe most people telling you your wrong and nit picking how you handled it, bed time and all that are younger, have younger children and/or just all around more permissive parents.

Why does your child get only 45 minutes of awake time at home? Which is all probably taken ip with self care and bedtime routine? Zero down time? Family time?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:34 am

amother Snowdrop wrote:

I understand why these 10 minutes are intended to be winding down time and not time to continue getting ready for bed, but I don't understand why she's brushing teeth and THEN drinking tea. Especially if dental health is important to you, which it seems like it is.

Totally agree and didn't realize till now how this setup was impeding bedtime. One of the things to be discussed with her.

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:37 am

#BestBubby wrote:

OP, not sure how long you've been on imamother

But 90% of imas are staunch permissive parenting.

They'll deny it and call it something else,
But that's what they are.

Kudos,You are obviously not a permissive parent

So go elsewhere for parenting advice.

I'm absolutely not a permissive parent. I still think OP is rigid & she's only thinking about herself & her rules & not taking her daughters feelings in to account at all. She's creating a power struggle where there should be none. She made her daughter eat a disgusting baby jar for God's sake! Her daughter wanted nuts. Nuts are healthy. A 10 year old should be able to have nuts if she wants.
And dragging a 10 year old by the shoulder to bed??? Sorry, that's not okay. She's 10! Not a toddler.

amother

↑ Honeydew

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:20 am

keym wrote:

My kids need to be up and out significantly earlier in the winter.

My 10 year olds bus comes at 7:45. He needs to be up at 7 so he needs to be in bed by 8:45.

In the summer his bus comes at 9:30. He can get up at 8 or even 8:30 comfortably. I don't see a reason to force him into bed early and push for an early wakeup just because.
He can go to sleep at 9:45 and wake up at 8 and get the same sleep, with the feeling that his mother is being flexible to his wants.

But also as a mother, I think one of the most important skills to teach my children is flexibility. The ability to change tracks and take life's changes. And part of the way to teach it is to model it.
So I don't see it as letting a kid take advantage, I would probably use it as a springboard to talk about modeling flexibility.

Being flexible sometimes teaches flexibility. Being flexible always doesn't have a very good outcome.

amother

↑ Thistle ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:28 am

amother Offwhite wrote:

Why does your child get only 45 minutes of awake time at home? Which is all probably taken ip with self care and bedtime routine? Zero down time? Family time?

He's welcome to come in anytime he wants. He HAS to by 7:45. That's not when he gets home from camp.
Stop judging based on conclusions you jumped to.

bakingmom

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:32 am

Not commenting on whether or not you went wrong, but just want to point out that it could be the applesauce had a funny taste because of brushing her teeth. I find whenever I have anything fruity after brushing my teeth, it tastes funny. I think there is something in the toothpaste (baking soda maybe??) that interacts with the natural sugars in the fruit and it tastes horrible.

amother

↑ RosePink

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:37 am

Children need structure. Being flexible means making an exception when there is a need or a good reason. For example, there is a family simcha tonight so we will stay up later. Something unexpected came up, we will skip our bedtime routine tonight because mommy has an urgent obligation. A child is sick so that child can drink or eat later than usual (just examples). Flexibility is a child being ok with those exceptions and not too rigid to deal with changes that need to happen. If there’s no unexpected circumstance that requires flexibility, changing the norm for no reason confuses the child and makes the child feel unstable. A healthy child will push the boundary and test you to see how important the rules are. Sometimes mistakes happen and a child goes to bed a little bit later or does something like eat when she’s supposed to go to bed. Our job is to keep reinforcing the rules. We don’t have to be extremely rigid, but enough to show the child that the rule is important and have them stick with it the vast majority of the time.

amother

Impatiens

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:46 am

OP I think also you have given very clear boundaries and time limits. Does she have a watch where she can see when she needs to brush and get into bed.? I assume it happens to us all where we need an extra few minutes. Make sure he is full after dinner, and if he needs a nosh, that there are things that are healthy to eat. She sounds like a sweet little girl. Much Nachas.

Trademark

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:54 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I think in general it's a bad idea to crowd source parenting (and marriage) advice on an anonymous online forum.

And we often see that a poster grabs onto the one poster who agrees with her rather than to listen to 10 people saying otherwise...

She might be not permissive, or overbearing, or extremely rigid or something else. We get one small snippet from her POV.

amother

NeonPink ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:56 am

Hi OP,
I know I'm coming after many others but just would like to tell you my input. Take it or leave it:)

1. 10 minutes seems like a short wind down time. Why don't you change it to
8:15 ready for bed
8:45 bed
so she has time to eat if she needs to?

2. It makes sense that she was upset that because she listened to you and went to brush her teeth that she couldn't then have a hot tea. If I only gave ten minutes I would let her an extra 5 that night.
If you give 30 mins like I suggested then you would not have to give her extra.

3. Probably a good idea for her to brush teeth right before bed at 8:45 rather than by 8:15.

This would just be to help for the future.
For now, I would apologize to her that it went badly (not that you did anything wrong because that is debatable) and either offer these ideas or other ideas of yours or have her brainstorm of how it can go better next time.

ETA: A renowned parenting coach once told me to never deprive my kids of food.
I announce when supper time is and they eat supper foods at supper.
If she wants to eat past bedtime I offer pretzels. It's filling so if they're super hungry they'll eat it and it'll fill them up, but it's not recreational eating to push off bedtime.

amother

DarkPurple ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:58 am

10 year old me is triggered.

amother

Beige

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:04 am

amother DarkPurple wrote:

10 year old me is triggered.

Same. Your daughter likely doesn't feel very heard in this scenario.
I'm not going to make assumptions about you or your parenting base on this episode but I'm hurting for this little girl in this story. Non of her complaints are unreasonable but mom isn't interested in changing her perfectly worked out schedule.

You made her brush her teeth, she's telling you she's hungry and you're offering her baby jars? She wants soup, why is that worse then applesauce?

amother

↑ NeonPink

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:04 am

amother OP wrote:

I'll bite. I used to give the kids ten minutes of Mommy Time if they were ready at their bedtime. Each kid a different timing, staggered according to age. I recently had a baby and mommy time stopped because I was always busy with the newborn or the toddler. There were days my oldest who comes home very late, didn't get to talk to me at all because a newborn is a fulltime job. So the first few weeks when they were all ready for bed including teethbrushing Smile

and ready for mommy time and I wasn't available, I suggested other activities to help them wind down and relax for bed whether it was reading to themselves or shmoozing with older siblings. At some point this DD asked if she can drink a tea and I said yes. The warm drink helped her relax and she got to shmooze with older siblings and I was off the hook, so I saw it as a win-win. These ten minutes were never meant as a time to catch up on whatever she didn't get to during the day... such as eating...

Bh baby is a bit older by now and we might be able to reinstitute mommy time. I'll be talking this out with DD and giving her that option or seeing if she rather wants one solid bedtime and she can choose how to use her time before that. I can offer to remind her about food or maybe set an alarm. Or maybe she'll have another idea.

Ahhh I missed this so disregard my suggestion. In this case I would consistently remind at 8:00 that she should make sure she's not hungry.

amother

Quince

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:09 am

amother OP wrote:

I just had an interaction with my DD10 that left me feeling like I went wrong, but in the moment I couldn't see where. I want to hear what you would have done in a similar situation.

Her bedtime is staggered, meaning she needs to be ready for bed by 8:30 and then she can choose something to wind down with until 8:40 when she needs to go to bed. She usually reads, sometimes makes herself a hot tea, sometimes plays a game with an older sibling, or just shmoozes around.

Tonight she was playing Monopoly with her older sibling and came upstairs to get ready at 8:25. I was busy in the kitchen so I said, oh great that you came up already, I was just going to call you. She's in pajamas two minutes later and wants to make a tea. I asked her if she brushed her teeth yet, and she said no. I said I want you all ready first because I'm afraid you'll forget to brush your teeth after. She protested but went and did it anyway. Then came back to the kitchen and said in a whining voice, "Now I don't have time to make a hot tea! A cold tea I can drink any time, so that I don't need and a hot tea takes too long now. And also I'm hungry." I said, "so then you have to come upstairs earlier. You can't play so late and then when it's time to go to sleep then suddenly you're hungry and don't have time for tea. That's exactly why I had you brush your teeth first, so that doesn't get dropped. First you get all ready and then according to how much time you have left you figure out what you can do."

So at this point the whining and crying turned into a whole different discussion that she's hungry. I said, you can eat anything you want but not now. You already brushed your teeth, it's time to go to sleep. Then, I thought to myself be reasonable, offer her something to eat that she can quickly rinse her mouth and I said, "You can eat an apple and rinse out your mouth after." Her response was "I can't eat an apple. I want to eat nuts." I said nuts will stay in your teeth, if you want nuts, eat them earlier while you're playing Monopoly. Then DH walked in, opened the pantry and said, eat crackers, eat sardines, eat lentils (jokingly saying whatever he sees), eat applesauce. So I said, actually, applesauce is a great idea. So she looks into the cabinet, and kvetches that there's no applesauce. I look and there isn't, but there are apple baby jars, so I handed her one. She doesn't want it. So I said, so just go to sleep.

She took it and ate it all the while complaining that it's bitter and it tastes like it's spoiled. I said it's jarred, it can't be spoiled. "I knoooooooooooooow! I'm saying what it tastes like." Then older sibling tells her to eat soup and she says, but Mommy doesn't let. I'm so hungry and I'm always hungry and the last time I felt full was two weeks ago.

I'm continuing to clean up the kitchen, btw, the whole time this is going on. And then I said, you know what? You get ready for bed very quickly but after that it seems like you need more time before you go to sleep, so from now on, you'll get ready at 8:20, and you'll need to be in bed by 8:30 and since you always go into bed later than the time, it'll end up at 8:40.

So that set off a whole new tantrum how come she has to go to sleep only 15 minutes after her younger sibling and then she'll only have an hour to read and if she needs to take a bath she'll have to come inside from playing outdoors at 8:00 and at that time younger DC isn't even out of the bath yet... I responded calmly to each of her concerns, explaining that my goal is for her to be in bed by 8:40 but if in her head that means she can play till 8:25 then obviously it's not working cuz she doesn't have enough time, so by changing the time hopefully in her head she'll know she needs to be ready earlier, she'll leave herself more time for whatever problems she has like tea and food and what not.

Regardless by this point in time it's way way past her bedtime, 8:55 to be exact. I took her by the shoulder and led her out of the kitchen wishing her a good night.

Why do I feel so yucky?

(The cherry on top is DH walking in after and saying, she might actually be hungry. I said, I wasn't denying that, but somehow she didn't remember hunger five minutes earlier... It was only when I made her brush her teeth BEFORE the tea that it occurred to her. Never mind that the tantrum had way moved on from that.)

Thanks for reading this long post.

You did the right thing. We all have mommy guilt but I think u did the right thing

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:20 am

bakingmom wrote:

Good point!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:23 am

amother DarkPurple wrote:

10 year old me is triggered.

I'm sorry for what you went through. Hug

amother

↑ Thistle ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:24 am

amother DarkPurple wrote:

10 year old me is triggered.

So you, and other with this view, think it's ok for a bedtime to be a suggestion? The children should be allowed to eat/drink/play/sleep as they please without any boundaries?
It is entirely possible child said she's hungry as a delaying tactic to going to sleep. You think that's OK and child should still be allowed a snack?
I'm really curious to hear how you handle your childrens bedtime routines and when a child doesn't follow the routine how you handle that.

amother

↑ Lightgreen

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:37 am

amother Thistle wrote:

Why assume the worst? And also to a certain extent a 10 year old is a whole person and it’s ok to give them some flexibility. Pple are obsessed with boundaries. They aren’t the end all be all. And in my opinion not that important in the big picture

↑ mom24b ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:38 am

amother Thistle wrote:

Going to bed 5-10minutes late every so often is not a bedtime “suggestion ”. If you read the whole post you would see the daughter did come up from playing ON HER OWN to get ready for bed without being told to. Clearly she adheres to a bedtime. OP had her brush her teeth early and then did not let her DD have a snack which led to a 15minute delay in her going to bed. Had OP allowed her to eat the nuts she requested (which are healthy and filling) and then had to brush her teeth again she would have most likely gone into bed 2-4minutes late. It’s absurd to say someone that is in bed 5 minutes late doesn’t have a bedtime.
In terms of “delay tactic” why would a 10yr old attempt to delay bedtime for a few minutes? If a child is attempting to delay bedtime, there is a reason for it, there is an underlying need causing the child to do so. If you believe it is a “manipulative tactic” you might want to ask yourself why a person resorts to manipulative tactics. As far as I know ppl resort to manipulative tactics when they have no other way of getting a need met. If you actually pay attention to your child’s needs then they wouldn’t have to resort to “delay tactics”.

Last edited by mom24b on Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ DarkPurple ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:40 am

amother Thistle wrote:

I'd say "K, eat something quick and then bed."
Literally. That is all.
We're talking about a ten year old not a three year old.