Where did I go wrong? Or did I? Be honest but gentle please

amother

OP ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:42 pm

I just had an interaction with my DD10 that left me feeling like I went wrong, but in the moment I couldn't see where. I want to hear what you would have done in a similar situation.

Her bedtime is staggered, meaning she needs to be ready for bed by 8:30 and then she can choose something to wind down with until 8:40 when she needs to go to bed. She usually reads, sometimes makes herself a hot tea, sometimes plays a game with an older sibling, or just shmoozes around.

Tonight she was playing Monopoly with her older sibling and came upstairs to get ready at 8:25. I was busy in the kitchen so I said, oh great that you came up already, I was just going to call you. She's in pajamas two minutes later and wants to make a tea. I asked her if she brushed her teeth yet, and she said no. I said I want you all ready first because I'm afraid you'll forget to brush your teeth after. She protested but went and did it anyway. Then came back to the kitchen and said in a whining voice, "Now I don't have time to make a hot tea! A cold tea I can drink any time, so that I don't need and a hot tea takes too long now. And also I'm hungry." I said, "so then you have to come upstairs earlier. You can't play so late and then when it's time to go to sleep then suddenly you're hungry and don't have time for tea. That's exactly why I had you brush your teeth first, so that doesn't get dropped. First you get all ready and then according to how much time you have left you figure out what you can do."

So at this point the whining and crying turned into a whole different discussion that she's hungry. I said, you can eat anything you want but not now. You already brushed your teeth, it's time to go to sleep. Then, I thought to myself be reasonable, offer her something to eat that she can quickly rinse her mouth and I said, "You can eat an apple and rinse out your mouth after." Her response was "I can't eat an apple. I want to eat nuts." I said nuts will stay in your teeth, if you want nuts, eat them earlier while you're playing Monopoly. Then DH walked in, opened the pantry and said, eat crackers, eat sardines, eat lentils (jokingly saying whatever he sees), eat applesauce. So I said, actually, applesauce is a great idea. So she looks into the cabinet, and kvetches that there's no applesauce. I look and there isn't, but there are apple baby jars, so I handed her one. She doesn't want it. So I said, so just go to sleep.

She took it and ate it all the while complaining that it's bitter and it tastes like it's spoiled. I said it's jarred, it can't be spoiled. "I knoooooooooooooow! I'm saying what it tastes like." Then older sibling tells her to eat soup and she says, but Mommy doesn't let. I'm so hungry and I'm always hungry and the last time I felt full was two weeks ago.

I'm continuing to clean up the kitchen, btw, the whole time this is going on. And then I said, you know what? You get ready for bed very quickly but after that it seems like you need more time before you go to sleep, so from now on, you'll get ready at 8:20, and you'll need to be in bed by 8:30 and since you always go into bed later than the time, it'll end up at 8:40.

So that set off a whole new tantrum how come she has to go to sleep only 15 minutes after her younger sibling and then she'll only have an hour to read and if she needs to take a bath she'll have to come inside from playing outdoors at 8:00 and at that time younger DC isn't even out of the bath yet... I responded calmly to each of her concerns, explaining that my goal is for her to be in bed by 8:40 but if in her head that means she can play till 8:25 then obviously it's not working cuz she doesn't have enough time, so by changing the time hopefully in her head she'll know she needs to be ready earlier, she'll leave herself more time for whatever problems she has like tea and food and what not.

Regardless by this point in time it's way way past her bedtime, 8:55 to be exact. I took her by the shoulder and led her out of the kitchen wishing her a good night.

Why do I feel so yucky?

(The cherry on top is DH walking in after and saying, she might actually be hungry. I said, I wasn't denying that, but somehow she didn't remember hunger five minutes earlier... It was only when I made her brush her teeth BEFORE the tea that it occurred to her. Never mind that the tantrum had way moved on from that.)

Thanks for reading this long post.

amother

DarkYellow

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:47 pm

I’m a very different type of parent so I can’t judge. It just feels like a lot of micro managing and you not being flexible at all.
Also 8:30 is a really early bedtime for a 10 year old.

118

amother

Catmint

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:48 pm

I'm not a parenting expert, but as a mother, I think you handled it well. From what you're telling us, you handled it calmly and gave her clear boundaries. I also have kids who magically feel hunger two minutes before bedtime, and I always tell them that if they're hungry they need to let me know early enough. I think you're feeling yucky because your DD went to sleep in a huff, but I also think she got the message and will learn to manage her time better in the future.

amother

Springgreen ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:48 pm

Oy. Please pick and choose your battles smartly. Fighting about ten minutes is childish. She could have eaten the nuts and brushed her teeth again. Especially during summertime when you're not doing homework or catching early busses, cut her some slack.

amother

NeonGreen ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:49 pm

You seem to be very rigid with her & about her bedtime. 8:40 is honestly a very early bed time for the summer for kids that age. She may have been really hungry & should be able to eat. Perhaps you can move her bedtime to later & give her a reminder 1/2 an hour before that if she wants to eat something, now's the time.
Also, dragging her by her shoulder to bed is quite controlling. And if you knew she wants a tea and may have wanted to eat, why did you force her to brush her teeth before?
Good luck!

amother

Wine ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:50 pm

If she clearly wanted tea/a snack why did you tell her to brush her teeth first?

lamplighter

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:52 pm

This is very rigid. I don't hear any empathy or compassion or connection in this evening just a demand to stick to a lot of rules.

amother

Honeydew ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:52 pm

It's the age. My ten year old is also like this. It's frustrating but tomorrow is a better day.

amother

Lightpink ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:55 pm

I think she just wants your love, understanding and validation. Shes also growing up and wants to be treated like a 10 year old. this is how I speak to my 5 year old.
I hear a lot of demanding and you responding to her about rules but are you really listening?
She mustve been really hungry if she ate a baby jar those things are gross even my baby under a year refuses to eat those
Also 830 is really early bedtime

allthingsblue

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:55 pm

My ten year old is a big kid and responsible and shows up in many ways throughout the day. If he was in pjs and ready for bed and had behaved well overall I’d allow him to extend bedtime by ten or fifteen min to have a tea or similar.

Also I don’t think apples or nuts are worse than applesauce. It wasn’t worth the argument.

Not that you did anything awful but in general it’s better to say yes when you can rather than look for reasons to say no.

amother

Eggplant

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:59 pm

Too much rigidity. Omg. My kids are younger and I let them read in bed with their flashlights and they pop off to sleep when they fall asleep. I don't put a time on it. Bed time is bed time- they can't come back out unless it's for bathroom but if they are hungry I'll bring a slice of apple...and if someone says they are actually hungry, they can come out for a piece of bread (I keep it boring but filling) and then they need to re-brush teeth. For a 10 year old I'd just say "go find something to eat, brush your teeth, get back to bed".

Why does she only have 10 minutes to read? Can she just read with a small light?

amother

Daffodil ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:59 pm

I wonder if those saying she must have been really hungry have older kids. Hunger is a bedtime delay tactic. She wanted to win the argument. I probably would have said she can have a handful of nuts and then go to bed. I don’t see how tea is good to sit on your teeth either. I’d have her brush teeth after not before. But if you want to stick to a strict bedtime you need to remind her earlier that it’s approaching.

amother

Gray

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:04 pm

I disagree with the people who are calling you rigid. As a parent, you know what rules are important for the functioning of your own family. Unless you've been hearing complaints from your husband and family members that you are rigid, I wouldn't worry about that.

As a general rule, the first time a child breaks a rule, especially one that isn't so vital, you can look the other way. Once it happens a second or third time, you preempt it by speaking to her in advance, not during bedtime. You tell her why you have rules about brushing teeth on time and not eating after brushing teeth. Discuss what she can do when she is hungry and what kinds of foods can be eaten after brushing teeth. See what is bothering her and how you can help her.

So what I would have done differently is that the first time she started to whine, I wouldn't have made a fuss or argument, just let her have her snack and brush her teeth later. Only if it happened again the next night would I have said something.

amother

Oatmeal ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:04 pm

Sidenote, can’t get past you having her brush her teeth before she drinks a tea or eats anything. Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of brushing your teeth?

amother

↑ Lightpink

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:05 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

Theres a deeper reason why theyre doing it. They probably didnt get enough one on one attention from the parent esp before bed but its not a "tactic". kids arent bad. Theyre just you know kids who need a whole lot of love

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:05 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

I don't see how it has to do with having older kids. I have toddler-teens & I maintain that kids can be hungry at bedtime. Especially if dinner was hours before & they were outside playing. My kids always have a pre bed time snack. They're genuinely hungry.

imasinger

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:06 pm

Everyone has bad days.

Maybe the time to go over the schedule is earlier in the day -- help her make a plan, and remind her as needed. 10 is young to have such developed executive functioning skills, often kids that age still need a little bit of reminder and encouragement.

amother

Lotus

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:19 pm

My question does she often say she is hungry before bed? It sounds like not that why I thinking she was really hungry

She sounds so cute that she sits and drinks a hot tea - omg so adorable

I really learnt alot from your post u sound like a great mom
I struggle with the opposite I am way too lenient in my house

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:19 pm

amother Gray wrote:

Disagree with the beginning of your post- I think there’s a lot of rigidity in the interaction, turning it into a battle for no reason.

But yes the answer is to have discussions outside of actual bedtime and help her plan for it better.

For what it’s worth I work with children and this seems to be very rigid for a 10 year old, especially in the summer, unless there are missing details.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:21 pm

Not going to respond to each post individually, but I do appreciate everyone's perspectives.

I do want to hear what is a reasonable bedtime, from those of you who say it's early. During the year her bus comes at 8, she wakes up 7:20. Her bedtime is 8:10 but most of the time morphes into close to 8:30. For the summer, it got extended by half hour. Kids here don't play outside in the dark, so that gives her enough time to play and wind down. Lately though since it's so hot outside, she's anyway not playing outdoors. Her daycamp bus comes at 9:10 but her alarm clock wakes her up most mornings.