New draft and frum families making aliyah

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:29 pm

Reality wrote:

I don't care what they wear. Just don't pretend to be a yeshiva boy to get out of the draft.

So they are yeshiva drop-outs who don't cope very well sitting and learning full time. At the same time I guess many of them aren't prepared to go OTD and not prepared to drop their black-white uniform.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:30 pm

amother Marigold wrote:

Many are real. There is a reason they are where they are. My sister in RBS has 3 kids with mental health pturs and boy are they legit…

I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the people who want to get their sons into a vocational program or into a school overseas.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:33 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Why can't those boys serve? Instead of getting fake pturs.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:34 pm

amother Oleander wrote:

Not realty but in my opinion anything else. If you are going to publically act in a way that is not in keeping with being chareidi then dont dress chareidi. It just gives chareidim a bad rap. I say this as someone who leans more yesheivish but whose husband stopped dressing yesheivish because he no longer aligns with that world.
I think there might be a difference in under 18 when they are children. I don't have boys and my priority is my girls dress tznius, after that it's up to them but with the boys it's not a tznius issue.

And if you still align with chareidi values but have a hard time full time learning, then what?

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:38 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

And if you still align with chareidi values but have a hard time full time learning, then what?

You join the army in a framework that is suitable for chareidim (Netzach Yehuda, Tomer Givati, there are other programs I'm less familiar with). You get to spend a few years doing something that is significant and is also an incredibly maturing experience. After those few years you leave the army, go and get a job (without needing to be paid in cash and be fake registered in a yeshiva), get married, kovea itim, do miluim once a year, and all in all be an eved Hashem.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:40 pm

Reality wrote:

Why can't those boys serve? Instead of getting fake pturs.

The IDF isn't accommodating towards chareidim. Haven't been and will never be.
My FIL served in IDF and was in army prison since he refused to be mechallel Shabbos when there's was no pikuach nefesh.
After that he was absolutely hellbent none of his sons should serve after what her experienced.
This is the experience of many older chareidim who fought in 1948-49, not just my FIL ע"ה.
Now you understand?

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:42 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

But that was 75 years ago! Are you not willing to consider the idea that things have changed? People here are telling you first hand experiences, not from 75 years ago or even 5 years ago but from right now.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:44 pm

someone wrote:

So you suggest a DL lifestyle, am I correct? Yes or no?

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:44 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

So you are basing all your views on what happened 75 years ago?

Do you know that 50% of current combat soldiers are frum? Things have changed.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:51 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Bnei Brak 10, I really think you have to do your research. Now we see that you are basing your information about the army from over 70 years ago. Things have changed. Things have vastly changed. I mean, there is a charedi unit now.
Please, please, do some research. It is not the same as it was then. Just like the country has changed, so has the army.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:52 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

So you suggest a DL lifestyle, am I correct? Yes or no?

She is not suggesting a DL lifestyle. She is not telling you these guys should change their basic values. Just shift some other things. Do you not see that?

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:52 pm

someone wrote:

My dear, when it comes to IDF and *it's values* nothing has changed. And nothing will change.
They may be some yeshivot hesder.
IDF has had plenty of time and money to build up units for chareidim if they wanted to. They chose not to do it.

If someone believes the great yeshua for lack of combat soldiers will come from yeshiva boys the they are gravely mistaken.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:53 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Nobody is talking about hesder here. There is a charedi track. Things have been changing. And will continue to do so.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:54 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

She is not suggesting a DL lifestyle. She is not telling you these guys should change their basic values. Just shift some other things. Do you not see that?

Just shift some other things? Hm. In this case I need and want you to spell it out for me.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:58 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Just shift some other things? Hm. In this case I need and want you to spell it out for me.

Shift things as in not sitting and learning full time. Going out to work and learning whenever possible, as so many do.
Not changing your whole world view to DL. Why would anyone have to do that just because they stopped learning full time?
I have a relative who was very charedi. Learned full time. Made aliyah too old to do the army, but also stopped learning full time after he saw that he had to work to help his family not just survive. He is still charedi. His world view about yiddishkeit hasnt changed. But he had to shift things.

amother

↑ Firethorn ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:59 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

How is the army supposed to build up units for chareidim - if there is nobody available to be in those units?
I mean, should they build a base for chareidim, full of empty buildings and piles of untouched military equipment and have some army rabbis hovering there in waiting position, in the hope that one day, maybe, the chareidim turn up? You can't build units out of thin air. You need people to start with. In this case, chareidi people. But they don't come.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:02 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

There is one chareidi Hesder yeshiva. It is a wonderful, pilot program. Why can't there be more like that?

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:07 pm

someone wrote:

Same things changed but the mission of re-education of IDF is the same today and in the past.
You can create 100 new chareidi units and change XYZ but the goal of re-education will never change.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:08 pm

Reality wrote:

There is one chareidi Hesder yeshiva. It is a wonderful, pilot program. Why can't there be more like that?

Ask IDF that question.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:12 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Plenty of chareidim go and work after they have a few kids. Plenty.