Maalot, bnot Elisheva, Bnos chava, bjj, ofakim?

↑ indecisivemotha ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:06 pm

Elfrida wrote:

It has become a thing within the past generation or so of the American community. In some ways it parallels the gap year that many people take after graduating high school.

In Israeli secular society, you graduate school and go into the army. The chareidi community doesn't go to the army, but they don't take a gap year, either. They go straight into career training.

Ok, but my daughter isn’t going into the army. She wants to go to sem. She wants a year of hashkafa to grow, and gain the lessons and skills for life. She wants to learn kodesh for the sake of learning not just for tests. So should she rather just forget it and work on that herself and go straight into career training? I’m not quite understanding that part?

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:09 pm

If a girl wants to marry young and support a husband in learning, a gap year, in seminary or otherwise, delays her earning potential by a year. On average, Israeli chareidi girls get married younger than their American counterparts, so they don't want to waste that year.

The Beis Yaakov schools have an additional two years following high school graduation in which the girls choose a maslul (path) for career training, and combine that with advanced kodesh studies. Then they finish and get a job aged twenty.

Some will leave that as the full extent of their education, while others might take a degree immediately afterwards, or at any subsequent point in their life.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:14 pm

indecisivemotha wrote:

So that's why you might want to reconsider Chedvas, which is the closest equivalent for American-Israeli girls who are looking for some kind of seminary experience.

Or, if you are willing to look outside the chareidi world of Beis Yaakov, to look at some Torani Midrashot. They are Israeli girls who have finished bagrut and want yo take a year or two of learning Torah for their own growth. In most cases there is little or nothing to choose between them and Beis Yaakov in terms of mitzvah observance. The hashkafa will differ, especially regarding the army. The majority will be going on to university afterwards.

Last edited by Elfrida on Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:21 pm

I don't know your daughter, but from everything you have said here, it seems to be the best fitting option. At least look into it a bit more.

They have the advantage of having the afternoons mostly free, which would mean she could go there next year and still be able to study for bugrut at the same time.I do t know of any other situation where that would be possible.

Last edited by Elfrida on Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:23 pm

Elfrida wrote:

Thats exactly what Chedvas is. The girls who go there don't do Yud Gimmel and Yud daled, they do Chedvas while doing mechina for a frum college or vacation Al training or start that after Chedvas.

↑ LovesHashem

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:25 pm

indecisivemotha wrote:

So if maalot and bnot elisheva are like “career training” that means chedvas and ofakim or sems as in a year of kodesh. So they are very different? Do they even learn kodesh and maalot and bnot elisheva?

Ofakim is Yud Gimmel and Yud daled. It's not just learning, there's vocational training in there.

I know many people who have gone. But again these vocational trainings don't usually offer a real BA and have limited tracks.

↑ indecisivemotha

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:30 pm

Ok so I’m calmer and less angry right now. And I’d just like to clarify I didn’t meant to be aggressive I am just angry at myslef and taking it out on random ppl who are being there for me. Sorry.
Yes exactly what you have both said is correct chedvas is #1 option for my daughter. It fits all our criteria and everything. However at the same time it might end up not working out and so I need to think abt if it doesn’t. Because if it doesn’t it might be worth it to look into other sems. Chedvas is option #1 currently ( esp if she does this whole balagan) however if she doesn’t maybe chedvas doesn’t need to be the only option?

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:37 pm

I think Chedvas is the only option that will allow her to finish bagrut and be in a seminary type environment at the same time.

I also think that after finishing bagrut, she really might want to look at a year at Ofakim. She would need to register in one of their tracks (teaching English might ne the easiest option), but would be free to get passing grades there and put most of her effort into the kodesh programme. They have a lot of discussion groups and extra-curricular programmes. The girls I know who've been there have really grown from the experience. If she isn't interested in their certification, she can leave after the first year, if she wants.

https://ofakimsem.co.il/en/limudei-kodesh/

amother

Whitewash

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 4:15 pm

OP, you sound like you could use a quick run down of the charedi post highschool system
- Most of the large charedi highschools are six year programs. The first four are high school and they basically feed directly into the next two years where the girls get vocational training and teacher training (no official degree) and and kodesh classes. The vibe is that the girls will be supporting a long term kollel learner and everything is aimed at that.
This would include schools like Yashan, snif, chadash, bnot elisheva.
- Ofakim is a two year program that mimicks the other charedi post high school programs. The hashkafa there is primarily charedi. The girls are taught to support a long term learner BUT the school attracts a diverse crowd of deep girls and that is what makes it unique.
- Some of the smaller charedi highschools do not have a continuation past the first four years and they feed into the above schools as a first choice or the choices below (The vibe is that the choices below are less then ideal)
- One year kodesh programs that allow for girls to study for a degree while attending. There are new such programs opening (and closing) all the time. You did not put any of these on the list and I am not currently in the parsha to know what is out there now. In these programs the kollel vibe is tremendously toned down.

amother

Petunia

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:36 am

amother Whitewash wrote:

All This.

The one year programs that exist are mainly aimed towards American Israelis, regular Israelis don't go there.
Chedvas is the most similar to an American seminary because it has a dorm (other posters explained more about it in the thread)
Masores Chaya is a strong kodesh learning program , only morning hours, no dorm, the girls are expected to be signed up somewhere to do vocational training at the same time
There might be more options, those are the ones I know of

Charedi college like mivchar - no limudei kodesh, but a charedi environment for getting a real degree. Your high school principal will discourage this option (also, sounds like your daughter is looking for limudei kodesh so she won't be interested either)

People are confusing Maalot with the American seminary Maalot. There is an Israeli high school called Maalot too (same style as Bnot Elisheva, etc) that might explain some confusing answers in the beginning of the thread

Hatzlacha!

↑ salt ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:04 am

I think some of the confustion comes from the term 'sem'.
Israeli Chareidi high schools (and the 2 years post high school that comes along with it) - are called סמינר.

Seminary (or Sem, for short) - is an American scheme where girls learn kodesh for 1 year after high school. The concept doesn't really exist for Israeli charedi girlss, except for maybe Israelis who come from American families, there might be one or two options for them.
(there is such a concept in DL circles, but it's called Midrasha)

Just another point, unconnected, there are other charedi all female colleges that offer more varied tracks like OT, PT, psychology, etc - where they also learn kodesh in parallel.
eg. Campus Strauss, Tevuna, Micvhar (been mentioned) - but she'd have to get through 12th grade first, where she is.

amother

Pistachio

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:37 am

salt wrote:

Just another point, unconnected, there are other charedi all female colleges that offer more varied tracks like OT, PT, psychology, etc - where they also learn kodesh in parallel.
eg. Campus Strauss, Tevuna, Micvhar (been mentioned) - but she'd have to get through 12th grade first, where she is.

I can't speak for the other places, but the kodesh at Campus Strauss is on an appalling low level. Once a week listening to a Rav tell inspiring stories, or a lecture on bug checking, or similar. It's there to tick the box of kodesh for a chareidi institution, not for real learning.

A friend at haMivchar mentioned that kodesh there is normally related to the subject material. She was studying nursing, and the only kodesh they had was halacha of working in the hospital on Shabbos. That was important for them to know, but represented a very small part of the course.

↑ salt

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 1:44 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

Wow interesting. I've never asked anyone in person, just read their prospectuses.