New draft and frum families making aliyah

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:29 am

someone wrote:

Good question. I don't remember, I saw an interview with the mankal of Netzach Yehuda about it but I don't remember what he said. In general the army is not the most organized infrastructure and isn't the best at taking advantage of the resources it has.
As you said, there are many many problems in the army. On lots of different levels. I don't think anyone says it is. But this is the army we have right now. The question is if we sit on the sidelines and say "call me when it's all perfect and I'll consider it" or if we try and change from the inside, and give whatever we can, because even if the army isn't perfect, it's the tool Hashem has given us in this generation to protect ourselves.

Right but I'm saying if a few thousand people were rejected how can they absorb 100k???

I know people dismissed from the army as they were needed in their profession more, whether they work for the police, the jails, or hospitals. It's really not simple.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:30 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I'm not sure if it was you or a different poster, but somebody said that most chareidim won't take money from the government.

Thats what we're discussing. If people do or should take the benefits of a country without willing to take all the responsibility of it like army service.

Many do take benefits they are entitled to end it has nothing to do with army service. 2 separate things.

↑ someone ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:30 am

LovesHashem wrote:

They don't claim they can absorb 100k. They say they can absorb 3000 this year. In addition to the people who already enlist. And if anyone has any brains they will reinstate sheirut ezrachi for chareidim that is counted as military service, I know its being discussed now. There are solutions, there just have to be people on both sides who are willing to actually look for solutions.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:36 am

someone wrote:

Right, around 10 years, but even before they officially started slimming down the army they didn't think they needed to expand the giyus. Combine it with the fact that the chareidi proportion of the population has been growing steadily.
There is a shortage of combat soldiers. Why can't chareidim solve that problem?

Lanky yeshiva boys (and over weight boys too) with zero experience in even light sports will be the salvation? Rolling Laughter

Time will tell Smile

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:38 am

someone wrote:

Many yeshiva guys would be happy to serve in sherut leumi.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:48 am

essie14 wrote:

If they have so much free will why doesn't their leadership allow them to serve in the army and decide for themselves how strongly they want to remain chareidi?
Why is the argument constantly being made that "it threatens their ability to stay chareidi"?

IDF isn't accommodating towards chareidim. That is my answer.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:53 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Honestly that a minority. Everyone I know gets discounts for arnonah, gets student bus passes, other free money for low income, food stamps during covid, etc. They get funding for schools, yeshiva, discounts on maon, etc. They get paid a stipend through the gov for learning.

Part of it is our countries fault too. I still am scratching my head why those who aren't citizens get disability stipends and other financial incentives. Both American chareidim that are on visas and Arabs in the west bank or those who are clearly anti Israel.

There is no crime in receiving benefits one is entitled to.
Taking benefits has nothing to do with army service!

amother

↑ Nasturtium ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:13 pm

essie14 wrote:

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
The OP is EXTREMELY hurtful and we all deserve to take offense.
My sons are frum and served in the IDF.
My cousins and neighbors are frum and are serving in the IDF.
Frum soldiers are making siyums in Gaza.

Chareidi is not the end all and be all of being frum. And plenty of soldiers are extremely frum in the IDF.

I just signed on and saw my comments made this blow up.

I know plenty of very frum shtark NOT Charedi kids in the army. I think I was very clear about that.

I do not know anyone who went to the army and stayed Shtark and CHAREDI. There are various reasons why, but while I know people who came out frum and solid and shtark - but hashkafically they shifted.

While I believe everyone has there own path and that is fine, I am raising my kids with this hashkafa because I believe in it and do not ascribe to religious zionism. Of course I would rather that then see them bum around in yeshiva, but I grew up in that world and I have real hashkafic issues with the way I was brought up.

I also believe that not every single guy is cut out for 12 hours a day of learning in the beis medresh and would love there to be a maslul where if my kid cant or does not want to learn, they can still stay hashkafically charedi if they want to. It would be so sad for me if the choice was bum out in yeshiva or say shtark but shift hashkafically (even if they look the same outwardly).

My hope is that more and more options will open and that eventually there will be an opportunity for charedi boys to serve and stay the way they where when they went in

↑ Reality ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:13 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

I live in israel but havent made aliya, what are all the gov benefits I would get if I made aliya? I havent been living here so long btw.

It depends how long you have been living in Israel already and how many people are in your family. The longer you've been living here and the smaller your family the less money you get. There are other tax benefits if you buy a car or an apartment. As Essie said already, contact Nefesh B'Nefesh.

amother

↑ Acacia ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:16 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Lanky yeshiva boys (and over weight boys too) with zero experience in even light sports will be the salvation? Rolling Laughter

Time will tell Smile

Who do you think all these young men who have given their lives to protect you are? You think everyone is GI Joe? My husband and most of his unit were all lanky out of shape yeshiva boys. I cant even remember the last time he exercised. They're some of the nerdiest (I don't mean people from Lakewood wearing last years style or the shirt with the collar that points in the wrong direction) people I've ever met. The head of the whole unit is an engineer dosi father of six. Really, who do you think is protecting you now?

The argument that they are out of shape and therefore unfit for combat is ludicrous. That is what basic training and advanced combat training are for, learning the skills needed to keep YOU safe.

amother

↑ Nasturtium ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:17 pm

Rappel wrote:

Forgive me, BB. I generally respect your opinion, and read your comments with interest.

But you sound a little uneducated on the realities inside the IDF. Have you ever heard of the Shachar program?

https://www.kolzchut.org.il/he.....D7%9C

I know the rabbi who started shachar personally - he ended up leaving the program because EVERY SINGLE agreement that he made with the army was not honored.

Its still a great program - but I would not recomend that an 18 year old charedi yeshiva guy who is not rebellious or testing the waters go there. A 22 year old married guy is a different story.

amother

↑ Nasturtium

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:22 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I can read your sarcasm. Why? I know many such boys that strengthened their judaism in the army. I know its not all. But I do know many who benefited so greatly from hesder and army service.
Why is it so unbelievable that this could actually happen? THIS is what is sad. I feel like many charedim are just living on this principle that WAS, but things have changed, but they are still living on that principle, even if it is now out dated.

For every guy I know who frumed out in hesder, I know ones who became datlash. And then there are the guys who wanted to go to יחידות מובחרות and didnt do hesder and really lowered there standards....

Yes, things are better then they where 30-50 years ago, but I have friends I grew up with who became secular or much much less religious during the service.

Plus - the fact that you only get promoted to the pekuda bechira if you Bennet style dati means that there is a real incentive to "chill out" when it comes to religion if you sign keva and actually want to make the army a career

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:53 pm

Reality wrote:

The OP of this thread said chareidim don't take benefits. That's why we all brought up the countless ways that chareidim do.

Guess I missed that thing.
Of course chareidim take benefits! Many do take but not ALL. Think Satmar etc.
There's no reason why we should abstain from something we are eligible for.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:56 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Ofer Winter is a great example how he was put under an embargo so to say. He wasn't promoted for years because he is religious and serious.

↑ essie14 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 1:33 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Guess I missed that thing.
Of course chareidim take benefits! Many do take but not ALL. Think Satmar etc.
There's no reason why we should abstain from something we are eligible for.

DH has Satmar relatives. They take all benefits, subsidies, and money.

↑ someone ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 1:38 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Ofer Winter is a great example how he was put under an embargo so to say. He wasn't promoted for years because he is religious and serious.

He's also a great example of how its possible to be in the army, even in keva, which is not the discussion really here at all, and stay true to who you are and what you believe in.