New draft and frum families making aliyah

essie14 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 3:49 am

amother Turquoise wrote:

WOW!!! I take massive offense to this.

We are chareidi. We had two boys serve who are now doing multiple rounds of miluim. They went in and came out just as chareidi as they started. I can tell you about many other boys in the same situation. I can tell you about many boys who came out frumer than how they went in.

I can tell you what high school yeshiva to NOT send your boys to, as half my son's class are no longer frum - it would truly shock you to the core if I could say which yeshiva it was. I won't mention the name here, as that's not the point. I can honestly say that after this 'well-known' and famous yeshiva experience, BH the IDF kept my kids on track. Compared to their friends they have incredible middos, they are beyond responsible, keep shabbos and mitzovos without a doubt. They learn every day, when they can, which is amazing.

You are welcome for my putting my kids on the front lines to help protect you so you can make aliyah in peace. At the very least make sure your kids do the same to protect mine, by sitting and learning. Don't let them be the ones riding the light rail and getting iced coffees and mucking around. I have yet to see a group of chareidim or peleg protestors sitting and learning while blocking the highways and messing up everything for everyone else.

Sorry, but I find this very hurtful that people assume that anyone who drafts into the IDF is sub-quality when it comes to yiddishkiet when the actual yeshiva crowd itself is not up to par, let's be honest. There are problems everywhere, in every system, don't blame the IDF.

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
The OP is EXTREMELY hurtful and we all deserve to take offense.
My sons are frum and served in the IDF.
My cousins and neighbors are frum and are serving in the IDF.
Frum soldiers are making siyums in Gaza.

Chareidi is not the end all and be all of being frum. And plenty of soldiers are extremely frum in the IDF.

Rappel ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 4:41 am

Let's have a big picture discussion.

The charedi draft issue is always almost solved, and then leftists jump in with wild statements and actions which make drafting unpalatable to anyone religious.

Why?

Because they're terrified of a religious army. They can't get rid of the DL, but they don't want any more datiim than they can help. The idea of armed soldiers whom are loyal to Hashem and their Rav scares them to pieces. They fear a religious coup.

I think it's a pity that people still fall for this tactic, but I'm patient. In the end, truth will prevail, and somehow we'll have a religious kingdom in EY.

LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:13 am

Rappel wrote:

Oh yes. All of this.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:18 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Just want to point out that msny many charedi boys do go into the army and remsin sttong in their yiddishkeit and in being charedi.

Then I have a question for you:
If many chareidi boys go to the army and still remains strong in their Yiddishkeit and in being chareidi then how come most of the chareidi chevra is up in arms against drafting?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:24 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Because it’s impossible and a very very difficult to remain frum.

First the entire premise of serving the country for the medinah isn’t in our vocabulary, we look at the country as secular and draft into a secular army would be frightening.

In the DL community they’re prepped from young age to serve after hesder it’s completely different and I guess they all stick together.
Charedei don’t spend much time with secular people at all - two completely different worlds.

I can’t imagine the secular army wants any religious people there just speaking with them their religion is secularism!!

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:24 am

essie14 wrote:

I would like you to please explain what you mean by " chareidi isn't and all and be all of being frum".

↑ Rappel ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:25 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Because Lapid and his ilk behave like dogs in the political arena, and are untrustworthy. So the haredi establishment (rightfully) doesn't trust them.

A religious soldier can maintain sedarim, do Tefillah, and be a mentch, while doing quality service to his nation. That's not the issue.

But policy is set by politics, and haredi politics are reactionary to the bullying tactics of the left. Ze hu.

Side note -- I love Goldknopf. He's a man of vision and settled mind, and is doing great things in politics. May he continue in a straight path, and see much success.

Last edited by Rappel on Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:25 am

amother OP wrote:

Because it’s impossible and a very very difficult to remain frum.

First it’s the inner Yiddishkeit the entire premise of serving the country for the medinah isn’t in our vocabulary, look at the country as secular and draft into a secular army would be frightening.

In the DL community they’re prepped from young age to serve after hesder it’s completely different and I guess they all stick together.
Charedei don’t spend much time with secular people at all - two completely different worlds.

I can’t imagine the secular army wants any religious people there just speaking with them their religion is secularism!!

My question was to shabbatiscoming.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:31 am

amother OP wrote:

OP, I'm a chareidi litvush middle aged bossy b--ch so to say Smile

Try to see if your sons may come on a student visa instead of full israeli citizenship or if they may get the status of toshav kavua. Maybe nefesh be nefesh will have more info.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:32 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Because while in 48 when ben gurion made this ptor a thing there were a few hundred men that were going to sit and learn, by now its THE PRINCIPLE of the thing. You asked, I told you.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:34 am

amother OP wrote:

It is not impossible at all. And for so many they go in, and stay just as frum, if not frummer than before. We know families that have had sons do hesder and they have had so much time, other than active duty, to sit and learn, that they are stronger than they were when they went in. So please, dont say that its impossible. For SOME it may be hard, but it is FAR from impossible. Very very far.

amother

Lightyellow

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:43 am

amother Brickred wrote:

Idk why all the hugs. My son is in a chareidi unit and feels that even though he is not putting in as much time learning (he still has a chavrusah in the early morning and evening) his connection to his learning and to Hashem is much stronger than it's ever been. He has spent the last 3 months in combat and it's been a good experience for him.
I just want OP to understand that you have no control over who gets drafted and when. It's true the majority of chareidi have not yet been in the army- hopefully they won't need to! But if Hashem decides this is the nest place for you, then drafted you will be.

My hug was a genuine hug, cos I feel that any ima with a son in the army should get a hug.

↑ Reality ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:43 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

OP, I'm a chareidi litvush middle aged bossy b--ch so to say Smile

Try to see if your sons may come on a student visa instead of full israeli citizenship or if they may get the status of toshav kavua. Maybe nefesh be nefesh will have more info.

I am saying this in all seriousness, your son can't serve in the army, bad influence, but he has a mom who is ok cursing?

I just don't understand that at all. Again, don't mean to nitpick on you personally. Just the general argument of the boys can't serve and be exposed to who knows what, while those boys are exposed to who knows what at home!

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:52 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Because while in 48 when ben gurion made this ptor a thing there were a few hundred men that were going to sit and learn, by now its THE PRINCIPLE of the thing. You asked, I told you.

Thanks for replying.
If the army was accommodating towards chareidim we wouldn't have this issue. But the army isn't accommodating to us.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:55 am

Reality wrote:

I changed my wording and you are right, I should clean my language.

↑ Rappel ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 6:59 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Thanks for replying.
If the army was accommodating towards chareidim we wouldn't have this issue. But the army isn't accommodating to us.

Forgive me, BB. I generally respect your opinion, and read your comments with interest.

But you sound a little uneducated on the realities inside the IDF. Have you ever heard of the Shachar program?

https://www.kolzchut.org.il/he.....D7%9C