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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
-> Summer Camps
amother
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 Fri, Jul 12 2024, 2:44 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | | That’s pearlstien from brc who came to help out, the owner himself was not there |
The girl that saw him was in camp malka for the past 5 years in this camp. She knows what he looks like.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 2:45 pm
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not taking girls from good families into camp is pretty much bec there is a shortage and I know girls dont get in to camp. Its very common and doesnt mean anything bad on their part.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 2:50 pm
| amother Crystal wrote: | | The girl that saw him was in camp malka for the past 5 years in this camp. She knows what he looks like. |
There is management and then there is the owner. The owner was not there, verified by plenty of parents who went to get their kids. I have pictures and videos of what was going on and it’s not pretty. To downplay the situation is ridiculous. Yes until this year it was a great organized camp , something obviously changed
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 2:56 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | | There is management and then there is the owner. The owner was not there, verified by plenty of parents who went to get their kids. I have pictures and videos of what was going on and it’s not pretty. To downplay the situation is ridiculous. Yes until this year it was a great organized camp , something obviously changed |
Everyone knows rabbi hiller.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:04 pm
Look I don’t want to talk about names, but you don’t have correct info don’t know what to tell you
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:04 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | | There is management and then there is the owner. The owner was not there, verified by plenty of parents who went to get their kids. I have pictures and videos of what was going on and it’s not pretty. To downplay the situation is ridiculous. Yes until this year it was a great organized camp , something obviously changed |
Maybe he was trying to get the camp grounds open. Maybe he was meeting with askanim. Maybe he went down to the township offices to try to expedite the CO. Maybe he was off grounds doing all he can to stabilize the situation. Especially if R' Perlstein was there.
He didn't wake up one morning and decide, 'let's make everyone miserable and have everyone talk badly about me'. I'm not downplaying the situation at all. I'm just trying to point out that sometimes unfortunate situations happen and while I'm not minimizing anyone's pain, personal blaming is against halachah, especially if you aren't aware of the complete story.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:08 pm
| amother Kiwi wrote: | Maybe he was trying to get the camp grounds open. Maybe he was meeting with askanim. Maybe he went down to the township offices to try to expedite the CO. Maybe he was off grounds doing all he can to stabilize the situation. Especially if R' Perlstein was there.
He didn't wake up one morning and decide, 'let's make everyone miserable and have everyone talk badly about me'. I'm not downplaying the situation at all. I'm just trying to point out that sometimes unfortunate situations happen and while I'm not minimizing anyone's pain, personal blaming is against halachah, especially if you aren't aware of the complete story. |
Maybe. But no one is taking responsibility for this, a couple of vague emails that weren’t honest to parents before the cancellation letter came. Parents on the ground taking charge of the luggage instead of camp staff, not enough food and no plan. It was And still is a horror show. And they knew this was coming because the grounds were nowhere near ready. Not sure why they allowed all these girls onto a bus with no plan to begin with
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:16 pm
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How are the CITs and TCs doing in the Scotland camp? Are they managing and ready for shabbos??
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:18 pm
| amother Black wrote: | | How are the CITs and TCs doing in the Scotland camp? Are they managing and ready for shabbos?? |
The ones that stayed are doing fine yes. A lot of girls went home, some are planning to come back after Shabbos
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amother
Hydrangea
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:24 pm
| amother Hotpink wrote: | | https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2296700/mailbag-shame-on-everyone-who-gossiped-about-camp-malkas-struggles.html |
I’m not a fool. I know that by writing this letter, I am setting myself up to become a punching bag on the very Whatsapp groups I am about to discuss. Since I had an up-close view of this tremendous camp challenge that was faced this week, I feel the need to express my feelings.
I am not one to give mussar. That is definitely not my intention. I simply want to give over my impressions as someone who was personally involved in this crisis and to relate what I saw as an individual. I truly hope that this type of response to a problematic situation will not become the norm and will not be repeated in the future.
A camp was stuck without a campus in the last minute, and they tried valiantly to work on an appropriate plan of action until things would fall into place. Clearly, the accommodations procured were very far from what parents or children would expect from a camp. Parents are responsible for their children’s welfare and safety. They have every right to expect that from the camp in which their child is enrolled. It is a fact that the parents and their children were let down, big time.
But was THIS the solution to the problem?
The entire idea of people’s serious problems “going viral” really creates a very terrible situation. First of all, it’s simply wrong. Secondly, it tremendously exacerbates the problems.
If people really were so upset, a better way to use their energy would have been to try to help. This koach hatzibbur could have been utilized to try to correct the problem in a quicker and more thorough way, rather than using online forums simply to gossip and bash people.
Let’s not forget that there were staff members who literally worked 48 hours straight, not eating, drinking or sleeping throughout this time. Why do they deserve to get publicly shamed? This negative feedback destroyed any energy that may have existed to try to get things right! Many mistakes were made. But taking pictures, sending them out and making the matzav look completely out of control just made things get even more chaotic.
Without a doubt, the biggest challenge of the entire ordeal was dealing with those who spread negative information, rather than spending their time rebuilding. The biggest heartache was watching the wonderful Head staff, who were working so hard but were repeatedly getting slandered across the globe by people who offered no practical help.
When did we become a community in which tolerance doesn’t exist?
When did we become a community where not only are people not given a second chance – they don’t even get a first chance?
Why is someone else’s failure “exciting?”
We all could one day be in a position of “failure,” and we all would want to be given a second chance. More importantly, we deserve a second chance.
What we learn from this situation, is that blogs, WhatsApp groups and the negativity and motzi shem ra that is shared on these forums, destroy any potential good that people can accomplish.
There were a number of parents who showed up to the camp livid about conditions they were hearing about through Whatsapp groups and on the Internet. Those same parents were present when it was announced that certain age groups were going to go home. The parents were shocked to see their children crying and begging to stay. No one cries and begs to stay when have a chance to leave a terrible situation. Clearly, the contagious negativity caused this situation to slide completely out of control.
If there would have been a positive ruach, and if we would have been able to eliminate the online negativity, we certainly could have pulled off the summer of their dreams.
In this particular incident, we are not justifying what certain people did. I am simply pointing out that it is very wrong to pounce on someone’s downfall like a hungry wolf who hasn’t eaten in weeks and eagerly shred people apart without a moment’s thought. It is well known that a person with low self-esteem needs to be fed with other people’s failures!
Yes, it is true that there are some people who do terrible things – but they also have spouses, children, parents and other family members who have done nothing wrong. When people gleefully disseminate negative stories – sometimes based on fact but often not – it really hurts innocent people.
If anyone reads this letter and discerns from it that I am condoning what went on this week, they have missed the point. If that’s what someone takes out of this message, that person is only continuing to perpetuate the negativity.
We need to figure out how to end the infiltration of the online chats, blogs, and the destruction that they spread. May we be zoche to utilize the tremendous achdus and koichos that our am kodesh is known for to create a kiddush Hashem and bring Moshiach closer.
Moshe Dovid Perlstein
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:47 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | | I have tons of family there and there were parents that were there to pick up their kids trying to help that I’m in touch with. The owner was not there. Please don’t gaslight family members of girls that were there and deny the reality |
Read my previous posts. My daughter was there. She had the most horrendous experience and I’m horrified! It was completely unacceptable on so many levels. But she did say she saw the owners there running around Tuesday night at 1am. I wasn’t there, I can’t verify.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:47 pm
| amother Hydrangea wrote: | I’m not a fool. I know that by writing this letter, I am setting myself up to become a punching bag on the very Whatsapp groups I am about to discuss. Since I had an up-close view of this tremendous camp challenge that was faced this week, I feel the need to express my feelings.
I am not one to give mussar. That is definitely not my intention. I simply want to give over my impressions as someone who was personally involved in this crisis and to relate what I saw as an individual. I truly hope that this type of response to a problematic situation will not become the norm and will not be repeated in the future.
A camp was stuck without a campus in the last minute, and they tried valiantly to work on an appropriate plan of action until things would fall into place. Clearly, the accommodations procured were very far from what parents or children would expect from a camp. Parents are responsible for their children’s welfare and safety. They have every right to expect that from the camp in which their child is enrolled. It is a fact that the parents and their children were let down, big time.
But was THIS the solution to the problem?
The entire idea of people’s serious problems “going viral” really creates a very terrible situation. First of all, it’s simply wrong. Secondly, it tremendously exacerbates the problems.
If people really were so upset, a better way to use their energy would have been to try to help. This koach hatzibbur could have been utilized to try to correct the problem in a quicker and more thorough way, rather than using online forums simply to gossip and bash people.
Let’s not forget that there were staff members who literally worked 48 hours straight, not eating, drinking or sleeping throughout this time. Why do they deserve to get publicly shamed? This negative feedback destroyed any energy that may have existed to try to get things right! Many mistakes were made. But taking pictures, sending them out and making the matzav look completely out of control just made things get even more chaotic.
Without a doubt, the biggest challenge of the entire ordeal was dealing with those who spread negative information, rather than spending their time rebuilding. The biggest heartache was watching the wonderful Head staff, who were working so hard but were repeatedly getting slandered across the globe by people who offered no practical help.
When did we become a community in which tolerance doesn’t exist?
When did we become a community where not only are people not given a second chance – they don’t even get a first chance?
Why is someone else’s failure “exciting?”
We all could one day be in a position of “failure,” and we all would want to be given a second chance. More importantly, we deserve a second chance.
What we learn from this situation, is that blogs, WhatsApp groups and the negativity and motzi shem ra that is shared on these forums, destroy any potential good that people can accomplish.
There were a number of parents who showed up to the camp livid about conditions they were hearing about through Whatsapp groups and on the Internet. Those same parents were present when it was announced that certain age groups were going to go home. The parents were shocked to see their children crying and begging to stay. No one cries and begs to stay when have a chance to leave a terrible situation. Clearly, the contagious negativity caused this situation to slide completely out of control.
If there would have been a positive ruach, and if we would have been able to eliminate the online negativity, we certainly could have pulled off the summer of their dreams.
In this particular incident, we are not justifying what certain people did. I am simply pointing out that it is very wrong to pounce on someone’s downfall like a hungry wolf who hasn’t eaten in weeks and eagerly shred people apart without a moment’s thought. It is well known that a person with low self-esteem needs to be fed with other people’s failures!
Yes, it is true that there are some people who do terrible things – but they also have spouses, children, parents and other family members who have done nothing wrong. When people gleefully disseminate negative stories – sometimes based on fact but often not – it really hurts innocent people.
If anyone reads this letter and discerns from it that I am condoning what went on this week, they have missed the point. If that’s what someone takes out of this message, that person is only continuing to perpetuate the negativity.
We need to figure out how to end the infiltration of the online chats, blogs, and the destruction that they spread. May we be zoche to utilize the tremendous achdus and koichos that our am kodesh is known for to create a kiddush Hashem and bring Moshiach closer.
Moshe Dovid Perlstein |
This doesn't sound like an apology to me.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:49 pm
| amother Ruby wrote: | | This doesn't sound like an apology to me. |
He has no relation to camp! He is the one who ran to help and did whatever he can as outsider. Why should he apologize it’s not his camp.
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amother
Chartreuse
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:50 pm
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The letter was not written by the owner or director. He was helping them for no pay
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:51 pm
| amother Charcoal wrote: | | Read my previous posts. My daughter was there. She had the most horrendous experience and I’m horrified! It was completely unacceptable on so many levels. But she did say she saw the owners there running around Tuesday night at 1am. I wasn’t there, I can’t verify. |
Yes Tuesday night was Before the campers showed up. I was talking about Wednesday and Thursday. Whatever I don’t want to get into it. But it’s bad
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giftedmom
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:54 pm
| amother Hydrangea wrote: | I’m not a fool. I know that by writing this letter, I am setting myself up to become a punching bag on the very Whatsapp groups I am about to discuss. Since I had an up-close view of this tremendous camp challenge that was faced this week, I feel the need to express my feelings.
I am not one to give mussar. That is definitely not my intention. I simply want to give over my impressions as someone who was personally involved in this crisis and to relate what I saw as an individual. I truly hope that this type of response to a problematic situation will not become the norm and will not be repeated in the future.
A camp was stuck without a campus in the last minute, and they tried valiantly to work on an appropriate plan of action until things would fall into place. Clearly, the accommodations procured were very far from what parents or children would expect from a camp. Parents are responsible for their children’s welfare and safety. They have every right to expect that from the camp in which their child is enrolled. It is a fact that the parents and their children were let down, big time.
But was THIS the solution to the problem?
The entire idea of people’s serious problems “going viral” really creates a very terrible situation. First of all, it’s simply wrong. Secondly, it tremendously exacerbates the problems.
If people really were so upset, a better way to use their energy would have been to try to help. This koach hatzibbur could have been utilized to try to correct the problem in a quicker and more thorough way, rather than using online forums simply to gossip and bash people.
Let’s not forget that there were staff members who literally worked 48 hours straight, not eating, drinking or sleeping throughout this time. Why do they deserve to get publicly shamed? This negative feedback destroyed any energy that may have existed to try to get things right! Many mistakes were made. But taking pictures, sending them out and making the matzav look completely out of control just made things get even more chaotic.
Without a doubt, the biggest challenge of the entire ordeal was dealing with those who spread negative information, rather than spending their time rebuilding. The biggest heartache was watching the wonderful Head staff, who were working so hard but were repeatedly getting slandered across the globe by people who offered no practical help.
When did we become a community in which tolerance doesn’t exist?
When did we become a community where not only are people not given a second chance – they don’t even get a first chance?
Why is someone else’s failure “exciting?”
We all could one day be in a position of “failure,” and we all would want to be given a second chance. More importantly, we deserve a second chance.
What we learn from this situation, is that blogs, WhatsApp groups and the negativity and motzi shem ra that is shared on these forums, destroy any potential good that people can accomplish.
There were a number of parents who showed up to the camp livid about conditions they were hearing about through Whatsapp groups and on the Internet. Those same parents were present when it was announced that certain age groups were going to go home. The parents were shocked to see their children crying and begging to stay. No one cries and begs to stay when have a chance to leave a terrible situation. Clearly, the contagious negativity caused this situation to slide completely out of control.
If there would have been a positive ruach, and if we would have been able to eliminate the online negativity, we certainly could have pulled off the summer of their dreams.
In this particular incident, we are not justifying what certain people did. I am simply pointing out that it is very wrong to pounce on someone’s downfall like a hungry wolf who hasn’t eaten in weeks and eagerly shred people apart without a moment’s thought. It is well known that a person with low self-esteem needs to be fed with other people’s failures!
Yes, it is true that there are some people who do terrible things – but they also have spouses, children, parents and other family members who have done nothing wrong. When people gleefully disseminate negative stories – sometimes based on fact but often not – it really hurts innocent people.
If anyone reads this letter and discerns from it that I am condoning what went on this week, they have missed the point. If that’s what someone takes out of this message, that person is only continuing to perpetuate the negativity.
We need to figure out how to end the infiltration of the online chats, blogs, and the destruction that they spread. May we be zoche to utilize the tremendous achdus and koichos that our am kodesh is known for to create a kiddush Hashem and bring Moshiach closer.
Moshe Dovid Perlstein |
So he’s blaming WhatsApp groups for his mess-up instead of taking ownership? He’s a victim now? How very typical.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:54 pm
| amother Hydrangea wrote: | I’m not a fool. I know that by writing this letter, I am setting myself up to become a punching bag on the very Whatsapp groups I am about to discuss. Since I had an up-close view of this tremendous camp challenge that was faced this week, I feel the need to express my feelings.
I am not one to give mussar. That is definitely not my intention. I simply want to give over my impressions as someone who was personally involved in this crisis and to relate what I saw as an individual. I truly hope that this type of response to a problematic situation will not become the norm and will not be repeated in the future.
A camp was stuck without a campus in the last minute, and they tried valiantly to work on an appropriate plan of action until things would fall into place. Clearly, the accommodations procured were very far from what parents or children would expect from a camp. Parents are responsible for their children’s welfare and safety. They have every right to expect that from the camp in which their child is enrolled. It is a fact that the parents and their children were let down, big time.
But was THIS the solution to the problem?
The entire idea of people’s serious problems “going viral” really creates a very terrible situation. First of all, it’s simply wrong. Secondly, it tremendously exacerbates the problems.
If people really were so upset, a better way to use their energy would have been to try to help. This koach hatzibbur could have been utilized to try to correct the problem in a quicker and more thorough way, rather than using online forums simply to gossip and bash people.
Let’s not forget that there were staff members who literally worked 48 hours straight, not eating, drinking or sleeping throughout this time. Why do they deserve to get publicly shamed? This negative feedback destroyed any energy that may have existed to try to get things right! Many mistakes were made. But taking pictures, sending them out and making the matzav look completely out of control just made things get even more chaotic.
Without a doubt, the biggest challenge of the entire ordeal was dealing with those who spread negative information, rather than spending their time rebuilding. The biggest heartache was watching the wonderful Head staff, who were working so hard but were repeatedly getting slandered across the globe by people who offered no practical help.
When did we become a community in which tolerance doesn’t exist?
When did we become a community where not only are people not given a second chance – they don’t even get a first chance?
Why is someone else’s failure “exciting?”
We all could one day be in a position of “failure,” and we all would want to be given a second chance. More importantly, we deserve a second chance.
What we learn from this situation, is that blogs, WhatsApp groups and the negativity and motzi shem ra that is shared on these forums, destroy any potential good that people can accomplish.
There were a number of parents who showed up to the camp livid about conditions they were hearing about through Whatsapp groups and on the Internet. Those same parents were present when it was announced that certain age groups were going to go home. The parents were shocked to see their children crying and begging to stay. No one cries and begs to stay when have a chance to leave a terrible situation. Clearly, the contagious negativity caused this situation to slide completely out of control.
If there would have been a positive ruach, and if we would have been able to eliminate the online negativity, we certainly could have pulled off the summer of their dreams.
In this particular incident, we are not justifying what certain people did. I am simply pointing out that it is very wrong to pounce on someone’s downfall like a hungry wolf who hasn’t eaten in weeks and eagerly shred people apart without a moment’s thought. It is well known that a person with low self-esteem needs to be fed with other people’s failures!
Yes, it is true that there are some people who do terrible things – but they also have spouses, children, parents and other family members who have done nothing wrong. When people gleefully disseminate negative stories – sometimes based on fact but often not – it really hurts innocent people.
If anyone reads this letter and discerns from it that I am condoning what went on this week, they have missed the point. If that’s what someone takes out of this message, that person is only continuing to perpetuate the negativity.
We need to figure out how to end the infiltration of the online chats, blogs, and the destruction that they spread. May we be zoche to utilize the tremendous achdus and koichos that our am kodesh is known for to create a kiddush Hashem and bring Moshiach closer.
Moshe Dovid Perlstein |
He helped out tons and should be applauded for that. However, saying that if not for the negativity the camp would have happened is ridiculous, the police came to the temporary resort and evicted them. That had nothing to do with negativity. The staff was bombatded with phone calls from angry parents because there was terrible communication. And girls didn’t want to go home because they are waiting all year for camp, they really thought the higher ups will work it out for them. The parents knew better. There were parents that were tzadikim that stepped in to help, but it’s not about WhatsApp negativity. Yes there are two gossip chats that shouldn’t have happened but it todays day and age you can’t control that
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:55 pm
| giftedmom wrote: | | So he’s blaming WhatsApp groups for his mess-up instead of taking ownership? He’s a victim now? How very typical. |
It’s not his camp!!! He jumped to help as a random person who heard what happened. He has no responsibility here.
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