S/O Fat Acceptance

↑ ftm1234

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:13 am

amother Opal wrote:

So some people slowly gain weight and become obese over 20 years, ok

Some people were heavy children who became heavy adults with no one big dramatic change, ok

Other people get a health condition such as hypothyroidism and suddenly become obese, ok

BUT what's going on in America and is an atrocity IMO is that many, many, many of these very obese Gen Z and Millenials, gained 80 lbs in 1 year after taking psychiatric medicine!!!!!!!!!!! And even after stopping the med, they can't lose the weight. And those meds are still on the market!!!!!!!! And doctors don't even warn you about them because the fat acceptance movement says "fat is totally normal and there is nothing wrong with gaining 80 lbs in 1 year, so even if this medicine only helps 2% of people but makes 20 % obese, it is totally safe and worth a try, because there is nothing wrong with being obese! Not ok.

As far as I know SSRIs alone won’t make you gain any weight.

It increases cravings for sugar and fast food and that’s causing the weight gain.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:31 am

The right way is an individualized approach. Meaning understanding everyone has different health issues and a different body type. I have insulin issues with PCOS and also hypothyroidism. A healthy weight for me and a healthy way of eating and dieting is different for me individually, something else works for each person. I think being morbidly obese and not caring is just naive and not healthy. But some people are obese, aware, and trying. My BMI is always overweight even starving bc of my metabolic issues. I also do not think skinny in itself should be considered beautiful and fat as not beautiful. I think beauty is a combination of face and essence, as well as taking care of yourself which means dressing nice and not sloppy. I also think many body shapes are attractive. My husband says that skinny doesn't mean automatically attractive and that many men genuinely are attracted to women who aren't skinny and that for most men it's "the whole picture"

There does come a point probably for everyone where we don't feel good in the mirror but I think basing feeling good about ourselves on comparing to other people is a recipe for failure. I love that there are now many influencers or even fashion brands showing different sized models. On Amazon I buy clothes based on seeing photos reviews from real consumers with real bodies of all sizes.

Some of us also have an unhealthy relationship with food. This includes binge eating or emotional eating, anorexic or bulimic behaviors and more. I'm an emotional eater and addicted to sugar. It's partially linked to having insulin issues. I lost some weight on the shot maybe ten pounds and so I gave up the low carb life that had been better for my body and helping me maintain a weight that felt comfortable and attainable. Then my insurance stopped covering the shot and since I had changed my eating habits and no longer had the appetite suppression or metabolic boost from the shot, I gained a lot, but I had started gaining while on the shot. Because of this I'm heavier than before the shot by almost thirty pounds and unlike before the shot I don't feel great about my body. Before the shot I felt good but wanted to just lose a little more and eat less restrictive. I learned that my body will always need lower carb even on the shot. Now I'm back on a low carb and starting to lose weight. It got to a point where my stomach and middle looked a way I wasn't happy with and also my breasts grew too much and my face looked puffy and most of my bras and clothes didn't fit. It wasn't like I was post partum or pregnant so it just wasn't ok for me. Also I genuinely don't feel good when I eat unhealthy or over eat. I feel sluggish and nauseous. We all have our breaking point.

I also think that being so restrictive can turn into self abuse and even self hatred.

But it's also ok for someone to choose to be a little less restrictive on food over being the skinniest possible. There are also life events such as pregnancy, birth, aging, major stressors that can lead to weight changes. We need to accept those and decide how we want to handle them for ourselves.

I think there needs to be a balance of enjoying food with avoiding health problems related to weight and eating, and eating in a way that is overall not unhealthy or detrimental.

When I was a kid I already had the thyroid issues and so my weight was scrutinized by doctors and I was not even obese or unhealthy. Even with taking thyroid hormone my metabolism just isn't as effective as other people.

I guess my whole shpiel is that there's too many factors, politicizing weight is stupid, and body acceptance combined with health consideration is best starting in youth.

amother

↑ Springgreen

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 11:05 am

sushilover wrote:

For those saying that weight gain is often not caused by overeating, there is this amazing British show called secret eaters. You can find episodes on YouTube.
In the show, every person said that they can't understand why they are gaining weight and gave the show permission to film them for a week.

The show found that people were significantly underestimating their portion sizes, were adding calories without realizing through spoonfuls of oil, peanut butter, or mayonnaise and not understanding how many calories they were adding to healthy meals, and even having total food amnesia: genuinely not remembering eating that treat or soda. One woman who I really identified with was so careful about eating healthy foods throughout the week, but gave herself permission to have treats on the weekend: Friday night drinks, a big English breakfast, and nice Sunday dinner. All her calories were coming from the weekend. And it wasn't like she was fressing. Just typical slightly generous "Yom tov" portions because it was the weekend and she deserved it after being so careful all week.

I think that's what we tend to do.
Remember, eating just 700 extra calories every weekend would mean gaining almost a pound a month. Just 700 extra calories! I think most of us overeat without realizing it.

It's definitely true, but also the amount of extra calories that will do it is not the same for everyone. The amount of effort required to keep a healthy weight is not equal between everyone. Someone with a better metabolism will eventually gain weight if they overeat enough over time, but can get away with a lot more before they reach that point. On the other end, there are people who will gain very quickly from even the smallest indulgences. So yes, they're overeating, but it's also legitimately harder for them not to. And some simply don't want to have to live a life of always counting, logging, paying attention to every bite and make a considered choice to stop caring.

↑ Fox ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:13 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

I understand what you're saying. I still don't think obesity is this huge mystery you're making it out to be. Sure, it's hard to reverse with willpower alone, but that's not because we don't understand it, it's because the food industry is determined to keep shoving products that override that willpower in our faces.

That tidbit about electricity in China shouldn't lead us to ozempic. It should lead us to safer artificial lighting that doesn't mess with our circadian rhythms which yes, is tightly tied to metabolism.

I get what ozempic teaches us, but we knew this all along. Guess what messes up the ozempic pathways to begin with? Processed foods! I'm so sick of big pharma being in bed with food giants creating the foods that are making us sick, and then creating the "cure". I don't believe for a second that they care about our health. Drugs are not the solution.

https://www.scientificamerican.....cess.

I give up. You really don't understand at all what I'm saying.

↑ Fox

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:22 pm

sushilover wrote:

You say "that's like telling schizophrenics just stop hallucinating!" And "FA folks are the most logical ones"

You are right that overeating is as much a symptom as a cause.

But the HAES are NOT the logical ones here. They are the ones saying, "Accept the hallucinations. It's just as valid as other people's perceptions. Don't go to doctors who talk about hallucinations as if they are bad. People who hallucinate are just as mentally healthy as people who don't. Indulge in your fantasies and don't go for help. Do not change. "

You're taking fat acceptance at face value, and I don't believe that's an accurate reading. I think the fat acceptance movement has two underlying elements:

* A desire to participate in the Marxist intersection sweepstakes by claiming oppressed status.

* Frustration and anger at the knee-jerk response to blame the patient.

It's possible I'm wrong. But the true test will come as medical science makes more progress in uncovering the nature of obesity. I'm betting that, offered reasonable solutions, few people will choose to be obese.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:24 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

I disagree, Fox.

Anti-depressants were used to label depression as an illness. We now consider this “mental illness” universally. I don’t believe depression is an illness, it’s a symptom of circumstances. Anti-depressants have their uses, but no one knows how they actually work. There has been a long-held theory about chemical imbalance, but it has never been proven. Anti-depressants are not a cure, they dull all extreme emotions when they work. They create a disability to feel joy. People tend not to notice this, since depression prevents joy, but a cure should enable the patient to feel joy, not prevent it. Sure, people spend years in therapy. The psychotherapy field is a minefield to navigate, all while emotionally inflexible. Mental flexibility is needed for problem solving.

On to the ozempic discussion: it’s clear why it works. Ozempic messes with the gut, yes. It also messes with the ability for the human brain to feel pleasure. Addicts behave the way they do for pleasure. We eat foods that taste good for pleasure. If we can’t process pleasure properly, we won’t do those things. There have been reports of heightened suicidality among patients who take this type of shot because they can no longer feel pleasure. This does not seem to be a sustainable solution.

Re: brain vs. digestive system, they are absolutely connected. The gut micro biome has a huge effect on our behavior. I don’t think obesity is necessarily a sign of laziness. For most people, it’s lack of understanding of nutrition/individual nutritional needs along with lack of skills to manage these needs. Combine that with the widespread availability of addictive foods and a culture that makes sharing meals a necessity, and it takes a ridiculous amount of strength to navigate. Meanwhile, obese folk complain that they get terrible medical care. To that I say this: EVERYBODY gets terrible medical care. We have an awful system that refuses to help patients maintain actual health. Those of us who take charge of our own health because the medical system is a wreck are told we have unhealthy eating habits and should loosen up.

Obesity is not an illness. It is a symptom of an unnaturally abundant lifestyle. It’s not there due to laziness, but it takes a boatload of determination to change it. Medicalizing it is a huge problem. We all need to take care of ourselves as best we can.

Ive re-read every post here several times, and I think this makes the most sense.

Leaving the moderately overweight people out of it, because I truly think there are factors beyond anyone’s control that cause them to overweight. I’m talking strictly obesity.

So what the messages I’m seeing regarding obesity is a mixture of these two:

1) Obesity can be caused by a variety of factors, and can happen even if people eat healthy and exercise.
2) Obesity happens from overeating/eating not healthy, but there’s an underlying mental issue that’s causing obese people to feel hungry when they shouldn’t.

I can’t reconcile these two. If obesity can come from thin air, that’s the end of the story. If it comes from overeating, for whatever reason that might stem from, then we can do something to fix it.

↑ mummiedearest

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:38 pm

amother OP wrote:

Obesity CAN be caused by a variety of factors. BUT. Very few people are really looking for those factors. Thyroid problem? Take meds! Why is the thyroid malfunctioning? Who knows or cares, take meds.

Overeating is a factor, what we are eating is a factor, sleep habits, stress, when we eat, etc. And eating healthy is quite individual. Even if we’re talking about whole unprocessed ingredients- intolerances are real and not tested for often. And have we looked at the agricultural industry? Lots of people claim to lose weight while eating the same portions in the EU as in the USA, but gain weight when they are back in the USA.

Emotional eating is real too. That’s not addressed enough either. We have a medical system that specializes so much that most doctors won’t connect systems within the whole person.

All points are part of a bigger picture. As for the fat acceptance movement, it seems to be a backlash to the super skinny fashion model norm (thanks, twiggy) combined with the Marxist ideology that fox mentioned. Backlashes tend to be extreme. Social media doesn’t help matters. I hope that people come to their senses soon. Ozempic and the like are not approved for distribution in other countries for good reason. It has a lot of risk to it. I hope this doesn’t become a permanent norm in our culture.

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

The "variety of factors" can very often also be fixed, or at the very least mitigated and somewhat addressed Ie, hormonal issued, thyroid issues, gut issues, hpa axis issues.

Outside of a frank disorder where one is missing the genes coding for leptin which is extremely rare, most of these other reasons are secondary and acquired.

Most doctors aren't looking deeply enough.

Also, most of these factors do make people overeat. Nobody gets fat on thin air.

Glitterveil ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 2:00 pm

I think there are a couple things nowadays that make this topic a little more complicated, one being that there is an ideal (whether we actively realize it or not) of what a woman should look like - 'skinny', low body fat, etc. when in reality, woman are supposed to have at least some amount of fat on them, especially during childbearing years, and yes, maybe it's not so healthy to be vastly overweight, but one shouldn't feel like they are unhealthy just because they are not a small/extra small (although clothing sizes tend to be subjective anyway), in fact, having that extra fat is a sign that their hormones are functioning properly, and those who do actively subscribe to society's ideal are probably not that healthy anyway, whether mentally - if they are obsessing over their food intake all the time and unable to enjoy themselves - or physically - if their hormones cease functioning right, or they develop digestive issues, etc.
Another issue is that because a lot of us (especially this of us who may have had 'extra' weight as a kid) are raised thinking that we should 'eat healthy' or 'low fat' or otherwise ignore our body's signals and starve our body of essential macro and micro nutrients. This behavior lead to a whole generation of women who haven't learned (yet) how to eat more intuitively and thus maintain a weight (whether it is higher or lower) that their body is comfortable at and can maintain without a lot of work, I.e. dieting.
Honestly though, the main thing is that we should come to respect ourselves and our bodies for what they do, rather than what they look like, and when we want to achieve a certain goal, we don't come at it with hate and disgust towards ourselves, but with patience and respect.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 2:32 pm

Glitterveil wrote:

But what happens when the body doesn’t have healthy signals, and following your natural cues leads to overeating, eating junk food, and becoming and staying obese? Which is what this thread is a spin off of.
Some people are blessed to be able to eat “comfortably” and stay at a normal weight (even overweight, yet not obese). Others eat “comfortably” and are obese.

amother

Forestgreen ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 2:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

Our bodies naturally have healthy signals, and dieting leads us to ignoring them and just “follow this diet and ignore your body’s cues to be skinny”. So dieting doesn’t work!
It’s actually unhealthy to diet! Dieting is teaching the body to ignore the natural cues.

If we would all eat intuitively and exercise properly, we wouldn’t be unhealthily obese.
Eating “comfortably” in my opinion is just eating according to what feels good (meaning gives you energy, doesn’t make you tired or make you crash). If you ask the people who do this, I doubt they binge on 10 cookies, they probably just eat 1 or 2 and are satisfied. That’s eating intuitively

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 3:05 pm

amother Forestgreen wrote:

There are many many causes of messed up signals other than dieting and restriction.

My signals are messed up since I'm a kid and I was neither on a diet, nor restricted.

This premise is just wrong.

Read these books, based on hard neuroscience
https://www.amazon.com/Why-You.....rce=1

https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-.....r=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Hungry-.....rce=1

https://www.amazon.com/Nature-.....r=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Grain-B.....r=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-P.....r=8-1

amother

↑ Forestgreen

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 3:23 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

Interesting. Can you give some examples of other reasons why our signals get messed up? A little summary of the hard neuroscience that’s in the books?

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 3:40 pm

amother Forestgreen wrote:

Interesting. Can you give some examples of other reasons why our signals get messed up? A little summary of the hard neuroscience that’s in the books?

Ultra processed foods are designed to circumvent our bodies natural cues

Diets high in carbs leads to blood sugar highs and lows which cause cravings

Antibiotics, environmental toxins and processed foods destroy our delicate and diverse microbiome which to a large degree are meant to regulate hunger and satiety.

Many people have hidden thyroid, adrenal, and cortisol issues.

High stress lifestyle put our bodies in constant danger (physiological stress response) mode so it constantly seeks and holds on to calories

Nutrient deficiencies due to depleted food chain can mean organs and hunger/satiety pathways don't work as they should.

Inflammation can affect the hypothalamus and mess with signals.

Leaky gut means complex food proteins leave the gut partially digested and attach to opiate receptors in the brain, causing addiction

Yeast and parasites in the gut produce metabolites that can cause intense sugar cravings

amother

↑ OP

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 4:12 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

There are many many causes of messed up signals other than dieting and restriction.

My signals are messed up since I'm a kid and I was neither on a diet, nor restricted.

This premise is just wrong.

Im evidence to this. I never dieted, always ate basically healthy and was the same skinny during all my teen years. My first pregnancy wrecked my thyroids. Pregnancy leaves me with 40 lbs of extra weight. Half of it comes off naturally within a few months, but the other 20 I have to work very hard to get off. If I didn’t, and I just kept adding on 20 lbs with each kid by not restricting what I eat, I’d be 230 lbs after 5 kids. I’m 5’2” ftr, and my body does not like carrying even 20 extra lbs.