Why don't most frum jews do 4th of july?

amother

Stone

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:24 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

I just sent my kidd off to camp. I just want to relax.

This.

It’s usually when the kids just started camp and you just want routine… would go to fireworks if it wouldn’t mean a super late night…

amother

↑ OP

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:26 pm

scintilla wrote:

Good question, I was thinking about that as I was typing those words. I think the distinction is that the founding fathers didn't intentionally make America a haven for Jews - religious freedom yes, not the main point but yes, but Jews were not the purpose of them instituting this freedom. They were probably anti semites anyhow (yeah I think one of them wasn't but most people then were).

"probably"? why won't you learn some secular history. it might do you good. you might learn the name of the "one of them" you're probably thinking of, I.e., adams, who was the most famous pro-jewish founding father. you might also learn that hamilton was very pro-jewish too. you might also read washintgon's famous address to the touro shul in newport, RI. you might also learn many other interesting factoids. some were antisemites (jefferson, perhaps the most prominent) we were most people then, as you recognize. but many of them held jews in high regard. don't be ignorant.

↑ scintilla

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

I have learnt the history, thanks. Nothing to do with secularity. I said probably because the historical literature is divided.

Your tone is pretty rude.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:49 pm

One reason that I am cautious to participate in American culture is because this country has been a huge assimilation factory. More than 2 million Jews came here in the last 150 years, but many completely lost their Jewish identity.

So, while I am trying to be a good citizen and be grateful to America as our (newish) temporary home, I very intentionally stay away from American culture. Enough of it seeps in anyway, but I am trying hard to maintain only one identity - Jewish.

Jewishmofm

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 2:10 pm

Kollel yeshivish here:
As Jews, we never really have to decide things for ourselves: we have a wealth of canonical literature to guide our attitudes and responses in any given situation...
According to Chazal, Ein l'cha ben chorin ella mi sh'osek b'talmud torah. The only true freedom is being able to learn torah and live a torah life.
Do we need to appreciate that America (amongst other countries) now allows us that freedom? Of course. Does that negate our experience of anti-semitism? of course not. A great strength of the Jewish people has always been our ability to balance being a mamleches kohanim, [gentile] kadosh - a holy people who are closer to HaShem than other nations and afar anachnu - as dust, lowly and looked down on. Our time in Western society has been no different.
Some years we bbq, if it fits the schedule. Some years we watch the fireworks. We always talk about how Chazal see freedom, and how chazal exhort us to pray for the good of secular government. We don't save it for one day a year, just like we don't save being thankful for Western culture affording us freedoms for thanksgiving.
I'm not sure why this is an unpopular approach among many Yeshivish people - I feel like our (wrongheaded) view of our yeshivish selves as being "the" holders of torah more than other jews, would behoove us to be even more cognizant of the freedom to choose this way of life.

amother

Aconite

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 4:15 pm

I have photos of both my family and dh's family dating back to the 1920s when our absolutely frum family members were dressed in straw hats to celebrate July 4. They were appreciative of the land that had given their families safety, the ability to practice their religion, a place to escape poverty and the opportunity to educate their children. Our earliest family members arrived in 1890. Our family has always proudly marked the date for well over a hundred years.