Bringing in more money than husband

amother

Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:45 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

I am genuinely curious, how old are you? Because I’m 25 and this is very much not the reality.

Over 30...

Who is the one that "requires you" to go out to work? I still didn't get that answer.

Can you please help me?

amother

Cantaloupe

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:50 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

Over 30...

Who is the one that "requires you" to go out to work? I still didn't get that answer.

Can you please help me?

How is it responsible that you are struggling to pay rent and buy groceries, and yet refuse to go to work because it’s not “your job”. It’s really bad middos, as I have described before. When gender roles were the absolute norm it was not a possibility for the woman to go to work. They DID bring in an income. The absolute maximum that they were able to, and there is even a Halacha requiring poor wives to work as much as they can to help out with income.

You think it makes sense that a family starves, and can’t pay rent because of gender roles?

Also how do you know gender roles are legit? We know mothers and fathers differ because of how they differently contribute to reproduction. Ok. Compare that to gender roles: it’s a hoax. Men can take care of children and women could work. No reason to torture the other spouse because in the past they couldn’t.

ittsamother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:53 pm

synthy wrote:

I earn a lot bh, my husband is in kollel and tutors kids as a side job a few hours a day. Still, I firmly made up my mind that I will not worry about finances. If I lose my job c”v or whatever, ultimately it’s his role. I still get stressed out sometimes but I try not to focus on it at all.

Yes so instead my husband stresses out because he knows the buck stops with him and end of the day, if we both lose our job, the whole family will be turning to him for the money we need to live.

Of COURSE I would never just sit by and watch him struggle alone! But I'm just saying, he feels a certain level of stress that I don't feel because he knows that ultimately it's his chiyuv to bring in the income.

ittsamother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:54 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

Over 30...

Who is the one that "requires you" to go out to work? I still didn't get that answer.

Can you please help me?

What do you mean, who requires me to go to work. LOL

We got bills to pay! And as hard as my husband is working, his income alone won't pay for all our needs! So what other option is there??

amother

Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:00 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

Again, Help does not equal required!

If you feel good and can take work on you, then why not? To help lift some of the burden from your housebend is super nice. If you are not in a stage where you can make it happen however, will someone say you violated your oath marriage? He has a right to ask now for a divorce? No! Becouse that would only be the case if you were required to not if you were good till now and helped as much as you could...

Can you really not distinguish between those 2?

amother

Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:01 pm

synthy wrote:

Exactly! Not your stress..

ittsamother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:07 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

So... You feel that the role of a good wife could very well be to sit back and watch her husband struggle miserably to bring in enough income, while she does her own thing around the house and takes care of the kids, knowing she could totally be supporting their partnership but hey, it's not officially her job in the kesubah so let him drown in this stress!
I love my husband. I could never in a million years face myself in the mirror if I did that.

Those of us who are kvetching about having to work are not doing it for fun Rolling Eyes

We're doing it because our husband cannot bring in enough income on his own and so we, as the loving partner and fellow parent of the household, need to lend our hand and bring in some money as well.

amother

Cantaloupe

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:10 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

According to Halacha if a man can’t provide for his wife he needs to divorce. And he is not REQUIRED to provide for his kids past 7 years old. A woman is not REQUIRED to have children according to Halacha, and she is not REQUIRED to raise them either. Also no REQUIREMENT to clean. She is REQUIRED to basically cook, bake, serve and make his bed. (Sewing too but I’m considering it moot)

I guess we have different definitions of the word required.

amother

Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:10 pm

ittsamother wrote:

We're doing it because our husband cannot bring in enough income on his own and so we, as the loving partner and fellow parent of the household, need to lend our hand and bring in some money as well.

Please read my post thoughtfully again. It answers all your questions.

If you still have questions after that, Please let me know.

amother

Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:11 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

And who disagrees with that? Explain what you mean...

amother

Cantaloupe

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:14 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

And who disagrees with that? Explain what you mean...

That we don’t live by what’s required by the letter of the law. So yes, if you can’t pay bills, you go take a job and hire a babysitter no matter how heartbreaking it is.

If a woman would live only by what’s required, and no one would say anything then I’m willing to take up your argument.

amother

Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:19 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

I started by replying to a poster who wrote the below, Which sounded like she thought the wife has the same burden of bringing money as she has to cook, etc. or the same as her hubby has. if you missed that, please read it again.

I have a hard time with this. Why did we women "get" a double curse (Chava's and Adam's) while the men only Adams (parnasa)

ittsamother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:20 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

Please read my post thoughtfully again. It answers all your questions.

If you still have questions after that, Please let me know.

I did read your post and I have all the same questions. End of day, a marriage is a partnership. The two together decided to have kids, live in a dwelling, and raise those kids. So what happens if the man just is not bringing in enough money in the end? He's not lazing around, he's working hard, this is the max salary he could get. They live on the street? She goes "Well, it was your job to support us so you live on the street with the kids while I go to my parents' house?"
I'm genuinely asking here, what do you think is supposed to happen next?

synthy

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:23 pm

ittsamother wrote:

No-ones supposed to stress out, it doesn’t help the least bit. I’m just saying it’s easier for me to do my hishtadlus without letting the stress get to me because I tell myself it’s not my responsibility.

amother

Cantaloupe

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:24 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

And I think that the curses are a reality that we live in, that used to be strictly divided by gender and today no longer is. I believe a husband should take at least two weeks off paternity leave and maybe more depending on how much other help his wife has. I think men should take up equal responsibility in household chores and raising kids. Today, with the availability of formula men should (many do) wake up at night to the baby as well. I promise you they don’t a thousand years ago.

Personally, what ended up working in my marriage is that I do more of the childcare and dh more house work. Make it work. I don’t care how. But sitting with your feet up because it’s “not your job” is mean. Regardless of gender.

How about instead of rigid gender norms, just do what works and needs to be done?

amother

Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:25 pm

ittsamother wrote:

He takes a side job, Loan, Tzedakah, Try ask a pay raise. etc...

Ask him if he needs more ideas or if he can think of more maybe?

In one word. The same as all of the thousands of men who don't have the privilege of a working wife.

amother

RosePink

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:26 pm

ittsamother wrote:

And in contrast, I had the stress because I was primary breadwinner. It wasn't about "whose chiyuv it is"-- I happened to have gotten a better-paying job to begin with and was able to stay with it for decades, while dh kept getting jobs with small outfits that either went out of business or downsized time and again. So I had the major stress because most of the income came from me, and if I were to lose my job, we'd really be up the creek. Nothing to do with whose chiyuv it is.

ittsamother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:28 pm

synthy wrote:

I just turned to my husband and told him, "you know how when you left your job and opened your own business you confessed to me that you feel so stressed because end of the day it's your job to provide for us, and it's all on your shoulders? You're wrong. I'm your partner. We decided to get married, we decided to have these kids, we decided to buy this house, we decided you should open your own business. You are not alone, and I will always do whatever it takes to help you provide for our family. I will never watch you flounder and struggle and just shrug and say "ok but this is what you signed up for, it's your responsibility". It's OUR responsibility, and I will be there every step of the way."

I firmly believe that is the role of a wife. His job is to support me- not just financially, but in every way, and my job is to support him in all those same ways. If he needs that mental and emotional support, to know he does not ever have to fear the stress and panic of singlehandedly supporting this family, my job is to give that to him. I don't care what anyone else says about gender roles. He is an equal parent in raising our kids and caring for them, so I am an equal parent in paying for their needs.

ittsamother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:33 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

For the world at large in 2024 with finances the way they are, this isn't a concept, that a working wife is a privilege. A stay-at-home mother is the privilege. If you chose to rack these bills up together, you don't get to stay at home and chill unless that's really what works best for both of you, in which case your husband is 100% on board with it. Otherwise, you pull your weight and help support this family. You don't make your husband have a heart attack at his kid's wedding cuz he has no idea how he's gonna pay for it all. You take every side job you can take to make sure the two of you and your family survives.