Teen, Needs and Hardtail: a poll

amother

Cognac

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 6:02 am

amother Burgundy wrote:

I didn’t have the right brand stuff when I was a kid- my parents were convinced they couldn’t afford it. At the time it was tough, but in hindsight it certainly made me stronger.

BH I grew up with a thick skin. I learned certain financial priorities. This served me well while my husband was in kollel for almost 10 years, and in klei kodesh ever since then. I would have never made it this far in living our avodas halodesh without a clear mind when it comes to chasing the Joneses…

We are still in kollel, 11 plus years and going strong. Not a contradiction to making sure your kids feel normal.

amother

Natural

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 6:09 am

amother OP wrote:

So the results so far as of this morning:

12% of people are still negatively affected
88% either were never negatively affected or grew up and realized why their parents had that stance

So interesting that so many people claim their kids will be negatively affected when this poll shows otherwise statistically

Re American girl doll: I always wanted one as a kid, I looked at all the catalogues. But never asked my parents bec I knew they couldn’t or wouldn’t spend $100 on a doll.

Now my dd has a bitty baby she was gifted but prefers playing with her Barbie’s (which I dislike bec of unrealistic body standards but that’s another conversation)

My take from the poll?

It seems that 189 posters so far were "deprived". That's quite a high percentage of overall posters, and that tells me that most of us felt "deprived" at some point or another.

So you thought you were "the only one" who didn't get what everyone else got? You weren't. Most of us didn't get.

keym

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 6:10 am

I didn't vote because my experience was very different. But I learned about listening to your teens, listening to what their needs are and not dismissing outright.

I was raised in the 90s/early aughts by hippie 60/70s parents who eschewed all group think. If I said "everyone" they davka wouldn't give it to me because they believed in going against the tide davka.
The style was blue and black Biz skirts, and then those went out and it was blue or black Stevenson or "Shira skirts". Shabbos was black or navy suits with scarves. And then sweater sets

I didn't even bother asking for a Biz skirts. I wanted blue denim skirts. But no, they insisted on buying me green and yellow and salmon and brown. I remember crying that I just wanted a blue denim or black cotton skirt to be a little similar to everyone else but they only bought colors. And I felt self conscious and sticking out like a sore thumb.
Shabbos clothes, they took me to Dress Barn (remember that). I wanted a navy suit. They insisted on a pale lavender. Same price. There was no real reason. Just to teach me a shita.

But it was trauma. I didn't need the brands. I just needed at 13 to not stick out like a sore thumb, and especially not because my parents forced

I don't buy designer for my teens. I can't afford it. But I do try to listen to what they're saying and meet them somewhat. Like no brands, but I'll take them to the mall and let them spend hours finding a schoolbag that's comfortable for them.
I've spent hours at DSW trying to meet them halfway. And I do buy the extras- the camp chairs and plastic bins and stuff because those are cheap and I can show that I love them and want them to be happy and not overly different with a chair and tutu even though I can't buy GoldenGoose or Hardtail.

amother

Teal

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 6:24 am

keym wrote:

I’m a late 90s baby and I remember a lot of people can’t have juicy, but I never cared about it. Never felt deprived. I did not vote either. There’s another store I don’t remember what it was called but all the rich kids shopped there and had their shopping bags.

ETA. Justice was the name .

ora_43

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 7:46 am

amother Obsidian wrote:

This isn’t true. It 100% can be a need for a child that they can be deprived of.

Fitting in socially is a need. If parents have their kid in an environment where the only way to fit in socially is to have name brand clothes, and then they don't give them those clothes, then parents are depriving their kids.

But the thing they are depriving them of is a healthy social environment. Not conspicuous consumption.

Comptroller

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:28 am

ora_43 wrote:

I am getting the impression that fitting in through the "right", exactly the "right" clothes is more of a need in US chareidi society than anywhere else (except maybe the military, but that's a different case).

True, in public schools there are fashions too, and maybe some children show their belonging to a group through the way they dress (think goths or punks or hippies), but I have the impression that in public school, more different groups coexist next to each other. There is not THE ONE required dress style.

amother

Nemesia

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:33 am

I think children, especially teenagers can often be cruel to the perceived outsiders or 'nebs'. Sticking out by being obviously totally unfashionable isn't doing your child any favors.
I don't see the need to buy the latest and most fashionable, but I try not to be too unfashionable. I also don't like to spend a lot. So far my girls have been okay with that. They have preferences of what they like to wear, but it's not about what designer label it has. But maybe they're just too young. My oldest dd is almost a teenager.

amother

Canary

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:03 am

My issue was more that my mother never got the trendy cheap stuff, and would even spend nice money on me, but she totally eschewed fashion and trends and I was desperate to fit in and it took until I was older and could be on top of things.

I never resented the financial aspect, but I was frustrated and being so obviously different. As I got older it was less of an issue, I became more confident and I new enoough so I could help quide our purchases.

I try to stay on top of basic trends for that reason - but luxury or brand name items. If I am getting a skirt anyways, it may as well be up to date....

amother

Offwhite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:07 am

I was born in the early 90’s and was never into brand names, couldn’t understand all the fuss about Jansport backpacks, Abercrombie and Fitch clothes, Juicy sweatshirts, etc.

I still don’t understand why people feel the need to chase brand names. The quality isn’t necessarily better than non-brand name stuff.

ETA: I didn’t complete the poll because I didn’t feel deprived BH.

Another thing, does a reptile tail pop into anyone else’s mind’s eye when they hear or read the word “Hardtail”?!

amother

Teal

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:15 am

amother Offwhite wrote:

Exactly, I worked in a school where they gave everyone juicy sweaters with a gorgeous J, which had tons of obviously fake diamonds all over. The sweater wore out very fast. The sleeves got ripped by the cuffs. (2017) That sweater barely lasted.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:37 am

amother Mayflower wrote:

I was deprived of things that were in literally just because they were in.
Now I look at the stuff and it was all so cheap. What's wrong with buying something just to make your kid happy? like a 20 dollar backpack that's just like all the other girls why not?
Even an American girl doll what's 100 dollars?

It's not a question of cheap or not. It's a question of starting to ask yourselves 'Do I really need it and why?'
Do you agree to foster your child where gashmius is the goal and purpose of life? Where the motto is "I live and therefore I consume" which *exactly* the opposite of lehistapek be'muat.
Gdolei Israel have never emerged from places where gashmius is the number one priority.

amother

Crocus

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 1:16 pm

tooting my own horn
I feel a success as a mother when my 19 yr old daughter proudly wears her bargain basement clothes and tells her friends where she got them. When they ask if she's embarrassed, I heard her ask them if she doesn't look good. They had to admit she looks great (has a real chush for dress).

A shadchan asked her if she has expensive taste. She said "I like things to look nice but if a $10 skirt or a hand me down looks the same as the $150 skirt, obviously I'll go for the cheap."

That is the attitude I work to inculcate in my kids and it's good to feel that at least one of them got it.

amother

Ultramarine

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 1:34 pm

My mother was into hand me downs and spending as little as possible on clothes, so got the cheapest stuff, even if it's totally not what the other kids are wearing. I hated HMDs so I was happy to get new clothes and I didn't even realize they were totally out of style.

I remember though, that I woke up at around 14-15, when my mother bought me a really awful knitted dress for Shabbos and tried telling me how lovely it was. I wore it once and realized how horrible it was. Then I rebelled, I said, "It's not lovely, it's ugly and horrible and I refuse to wear it (even though she said she wasn't going to get me another one) and I don't care, I'll stay home every Shabbos, but I'm not going to wear it." After that my mother started paying a little more attention to what I wanted to wear. We still didn't spend more than the bare minimum but at least what we got wasn't so embarrassing.

But this wasn't a matter of designer or in stuff or not. It was a matter of decent taste or really really dowdy and outdated.

amother

Rainbow

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 6:16 pm

amother Natural wrote:

The poll is very biased because it assumes everyone felt deprived.

amother

Rainbow

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 6:21 pm

amother Canary wrote:

Someone needs to do a study on why frum millennial and gen z parents are so obsessed with staying on top of fashion trends for their children. It’s gotten so over the top and extra.

amother

DarkPurple

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 7:49 pm

Though you put the word "deprived" in quotes, I still dislike your wording. I do not and did not even as a teen believe that brand names are necessary or even desirable, and I would never in a quintillion years apply the word "deprivation" to the lack of possessions with brand names. In fact, the quickest way to persuade me not to buy something is to point out with pride that it's a _______ (fill in the brand name of your choice). A brand name adds to the cost while adding nothing to the longevity, looks, quality or utility of an item. Furthermore I am not an advertising billboard.