Son upset we are saying no

lamplighter

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 8:43 am

I think saying No and sticking to your guns is good chinuch.
Your reason for saying no is extremely flawed. It sounds like you are saying no so that you can have more control over him (you are) and his anger is over feeling controlled.
Sorry to be so blunt but your control over his time and social life is unhealthy and not normal.
This will not end well.
He sounds like he spends lots of time with you and loves his friends. Amazing, sounds like a good natured balanced child, the control over his time and relationships is not.

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:26 am

amother Honeydew wrote:

Op, stick to your guns! All of the research supports you. You are the adult, you are the parent. He is 12. I'm pretty sure you know better. Ignore these ridiculous women on here who sound like 12 year olds themselves. Also, check out books by Leonard Sax and Jonathan Haidt for validation. Never seek advice from this site! Unless you want spoiled, entitled children and then you are stunned when they don't magically become wonderful young adults after indulging them and teaching them to value peer pressure all their childhood and adolescence. I said what I said imamother

Um have you read the op? We’re not talking about a smartphone here. This is a kosher phone. I highly doubt Jonathon Haidt is against that.

amother

↑ Stoneblue

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:28 am

amother Topaz wrote:

OP keep saying no. Trust me, I wish I had given my kids phones when they were older. Once you give, you can't exactly take it away. And they do try to wear down the rules. It becomes more a point of contention once the phone exists, more than a phone that doesn't exist.
From a kosher phone they graduate to other not kosher phones, the wifi at home isn't good enough they want data, they get hotspots, if there's a filter, there's always that friend who knows how to break through it...

If he wants to feel cool, maybe you can buy him something else that he wants that isn't a device. Or maybe you can explain to him that phones don't make us cool. Cool people are people who stand strong against peer pressure.

I don’t know why you’re acting like it’s a natural progression that once they have a kosher phone, they graduate to not kosher phones. It’s really not. The norm in many communities is for people to not have smartphones until they’re independent adults who are working and may choose to buy one on their own. And that happens regardless of whether they had a kosher phone as teens.

amother

↑ Forestgreen

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:13 am

Just to point out, many replies are from Americans. Israeli culture is different. Our kids take buses alone, take little kids places, go shopping, go to other cities, take public transportation and we have a risk of sirens. It is very normal in this country for even elementary kids in certain location to have a kosher phone. I bought my dd a kosher phone after the 7th and she was out twice when a siren sounded and a few times while the iron dome went off. This is the way we live and a phone makes a difference when a bus doesn’t show up for 20 minutes, the train is late or bombs are going off overhead.

keym

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:16 am

WhatFor wrote:

This whole topic got me thinking, because growing up we didn't either have cell phones, certainly not by age 12. But we all had landlines in our house, and we were able to answer them ourselves and pass on messages from a pretty young age. We could also call our friends and they could call us. And while whomever answered was inevitably "vetting" the caller for us, often the person answering was just us, one of the kids answering our friend's call, or passing on the call to a sibling.

Kids who grow up with no phone and no landline really end up missing out on these basic social interactions. If we were discussing a landline, a mother screening and vetting each call or micromanaging a landline for her 12yo would instantly be seen as overbearing. Similar to that poster who once described how her similarly-aged child wasn't permitted to go into the fridge. It's because we associate cell phones with smart phones and smart phones with a million other things that it sounds more normal that a child doesn't have unfettered access to a cell phone. But do these kids still have access to any type of landline phone?

When my daughter principal talked about the "no cell phone rules" one of the things he talked about was how in the traditional landline system, there was a level of oversight as to who your child is talking to, how frequently, etc.
With the personal cellphone era, you have tweens and teens handling their complex social lives and parents actually have no idea who is involved and when.
And most 10-14 year olds are not capable of handling all of that alone

Some level of oversight, not control. Where parents can notice that X is calling all the time, is that a healthy friendship, let's talk with the child is actually important

↑ Success10

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:18 am

amother Forestgreen wrote:

Yes, this. We also relied heavily on phones during corona, class was over the phone hotline in Chareidi schools. My kids have their own phones from younger than 12. I'm the nervous type and it's very helpful. The phones are 250 to 300 shekels and the monthly plan is very cheap. We don't have a landline.

Last edited by Success10 on Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mintcream

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:18 am

Hold strong and don’t give in. The reason is that it’s not necessary. He doesn’t need it and you believe that it isn’t good for him. It’s not because you don’t trust him. If you say you don’t trust him, it’s an insult to him and he’ll then try to earn your trust and point out to you that he is trustworthy. If you don’t plan on getting him one till he reaches a certain age, just say that. You’re the parent and you don’t think a phone is good for a twelve year old. What else does he like besides phones? Maybe you can him something else for accepting the situation well. (A game boy, mp3 player, another cool gadget…)

amother

Chambray

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:22 am

I totally don't think you need to run and get him a phone because he's throwing a tantrum. You are his mother and you know him best. It's not like all of his friends have a phone.
If you are saying no because you feel that it's in his best interest then stick to it. Don't get into a pattern of him tantruming and then giving him anything.
Validate that it's hard for him. Tell him you'll think about it. And maybe you can discuss it again in x amount of weeks or months...

unexpected

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:55 am

In our house no one gets their own phone until they finish high school end of story full stop. We have two family phones that rotate when they go babysitting or to the store but it is a public phone that is monitored by my husband and myself. We believe that a teenager with his/her own phone is a conduit to unhealthy sometimes secret relationships and not worth the risk. Our kids are okay with the rule for the simple reason that they know we will not bend on it.

amother

Papaya

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:57 am

First of all, if you said no and he is giving you the silent treatment, now is not the time to say yes. Stick to your guns if you think this is best - for now.

We live in Jerusalem too, my dd age 11 has a kosher phone. She was also dying to get one. She has now had one since last year and rarely uses it when she is home. Once in a while she will talk to a friend, sometimes call her grandparents on her own (which is lovely). The phone really isn't that enticing for kids this age, even more so for boys. It has no texts/messaging, just calls. 12 year old boys do not spend a lot of time talking on the phone. And if yours does, that's good communication skills he is building, I doubt he will spend hours on the phone like a 16 year old girl might.

Presumably, you will get him a phone at some point. The question is, when do you think that is? With dd, we made her earn it. And then we gave it to her as a birthday gift. We made her show that she is responsible enough for it, you can use a point system so it is transparent for everyone involved.

Another option is to get a family cell phone which is kept charging in a central location. Almost like having a landline, but it can also be taken if your son or other family members are going out so you can keep in touch. And this allows for some natural limitations and awareness of calls for you, but also gives your son a bit more freedom. And then he can graduate to his own phone later.

Also, what circles are you in? I may have more relevant advice based on that.

amother

Raspberry

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 1:02 pm

I just want to mention that if a preteen/teen is throwing tantrums about something and it really means so much to him, it is better to work with the child than to stick to a flat out no.

Otherwise, you may win the battle but not the war. You are setting up the child to work around and not with you as he continues thru the tumultuous teen years. He will get smarter and more ingenious in hiding things from his parents. He won't have the trust in his parents that they understand him and his needs.

Without that trust, parents are on the losing side.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 1:36 pm

amother Leaf wrote:

I agree with him not having his own phone but I honestly am hating this ‘gate keeping’ of phone calls. I’m glad you want to have family time with your son but he’s at an age where he has to want it with you, too. He’s just going to hate you for it when he finds out, and he will find out, if he hasn’t already and that’s why he’s particularly adamant about his own phone.

I cannot emphasize enough how much I hate your gatekeeping phone policy and think it’s a really bad idea

I echo this post
OP, you will be sorry when DS finds out. Your strategy isn't honest. Instead you choose a kind of sneaky path.

amother

Iris

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 3:37 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

if u give in now he will give the silent treatment to always get his way. Wait until it blows over if u plan to give in

amother

Jetblack

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:30 pm

I didn't read all replies so excuse me if I some information is a repeat.
I like telling my kids the yes parts and the Mayne part but not the no parts also when possible. I would tell my son. "Yes we will by another cell phone". "No, it won't be yours it will be the families." My kids have a landlines phone and kosher phone. They love their kosher cell phone. They take pictures with it. Use the calculator, note and recorder feature for homework. The phone belongs to the family and it comes with rules.

Rule #1 prioritiy goes from oldest to youngest.
Rule #2. Someone I send out shopping gets priority.
#3 No phone during supper hours.
#4 No phone during in the bedrooms after a certain time even if your not tired.

My kids follow the rules. It has a public spot where it kept when not in use. Sometimes a kid hogs it. It's fine as long as I and siblings could find it and use it. Honestly even my preschool age kids use it sometimes. It's definitely a family Phone.

I think such an idea would be a great idea for a tween or young teen.

We went through a period where one child was more addicted to the cell phone. During that period we switched the rule to no cell phones at home only for running errands. The kid had full access to the family cordless. The main thing the kid found annoying was getting beeps while on the phone we let them ignore beeps.