Son upset we are saying no

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:05 am

My son is 12 and has been asking for a phone (simple, kosher) for a while. We live in yerushalayim.

It seems like maybe 25-30% of his class has, I imagine they use it mainly to be in to be with their parents as they the take buses home are out with friends etc...

We do not want him to get him a phone for many many reasons.

He often makes passive aggressive comments like, "well if I had a phone then that wouldn't have happened" etc about things that are minor inconveniences. I give him my phone very regularly when I want to be in touch with him when he's out or if he's going somewhere new and try to be super flexible about that to give him freedom.

One of the main reasons I do not want him to have a phone as I like being somewhat of the gatekeeper to his friends. If they call me I can answer and say its not a good time and not give him the phone and he doesn't even know and then doesn't resent me. If he would have a number they'd call him and I would be constantly fighting him to not be on the phone all the time and not constantly be with friends.

He talks plenty on my phone, plays with friends a lot, but its very important to me that a nice percentage of his "out of school time" is spent at home, properly catching up with his parents, playing games with us and being a proper member of the family and I know that him having a phone would make his social life expand even more/ make all the new ideas, play dates, pull of the street way more enticing and make so much tension between us.

In general we get along great, he is happy, relaxed, has fun with us etc... I try and give him all the yes's I can and pick my no's very carefully. This no about the phone is one of them I feel very strongly about. once every few months he gets super mad about not having a phone.

Last night he started one of those times and now is giving us the silent treatment, threatening not to go to school and just being miserable to be around.

I get it that it bothers him, but I really feel that its not in his best interest. I'm trying to be nice and warm and give him space to be angry, but I hate it when he's like this.

Wondering if anyone has any tips or advice for me.

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:21 am

I hold back on phones until necessary also, but I think it's important to have a good answer.

Right now, you don't have a good answer, just that it's easier for you to set boundaries if you are holding onto the phone.

IMHO, you need to clarify your concerns in a way that you can give them over to him. Otherwise, as you are already seeing, he will push back on them. (Even with a good explanation, he might, but it won't be a power struggle, just a disagreement.)

In similar situations (my concern is real but dependent on their behavior), I will sometimes do a written contract for my kids. I am giving you this freedom conditionally, with the understanding that you are okay with following these guidelines. And it is clear that I will take back the privilege if you stop following them at any time.

He is 12, almost Bar Mitzvah.

Would he be willing to get a phone as a trial period, with the understanding that it must be shut off and left in the kitchen during the hours of XX and XX? Or that he may answer up to X calls per evening, or spend XX minutes on the phone? Or that he can access his phone only when he is out of the house? Or can you figure out some other system that can be a safe compromise for you?

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:24 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

It sounds to me like you might be subconsciously inhibiting his social life out of a kind of jealousy.

jealousy?! of my own child?

no way!

I am so happy he has a wonderful social life B'H.
He is too immature to have his own boundaries and has FOMO of whats going on with friends and he needs a parent to just ensure that he has some time in his life for plain old family connection thats all.

I think I'm being an appropriate mother who through fairly natural technical setup has been able to ensure we have to time to connect and he spends sometime just at home.

He really does have a lot of freedom and time with his friends. The phone in his head is like a status symbol and thats why he wants it and I don't want him to have it because of how it will impact the fairly natural routine I've been able to help him develop.

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:28 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

Honestly, I just don't trust him with this temptation to keep to any rules. He will agree to a contract all sincerely, but I imagine then get frustrated by the rules and try to wear me down to do away with them, and once he has the phone it'll be very hard to always discuss, deal with the issues etc...

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:29 am

abound wrote:

Stick to your guns and ride the waves of him being mad at times.
Also when he is calm and okay discuss at what point you will get him a phone, this way he feels like there is a certain pointwhen you will get it for him and its not based on how much he begs and drives you crazy.
A. His bar mitzva
B. Yeshiva Ketana
C. When he does a specific thing/ contest.

Also talk to him abt proper phone usage.

I did, I told him he will get a phone once he's done with cheder - he doesn't care, still is super angry.

Comptroller

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:31 am

Gatekeeping for a 12-year old?
Seems a bit over-controlling.
Maybe that's the reason why he resents it.

In general, trust breeds trust. Control breeds sneakiness and lies...

and then it often becomes a self-perpetuating cycle:

Children lie and are sneaky because parents are over-controlling, then parents discover a lie, are very disappointed, impose more restrictions, more resentment and sneakiness on the child's part, etc.

Last edited by Comptroller on Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:32 am

I would love to explain to him that the reason is because I am concerned he won't use it right, will be on it excessively etc etc...
He'll get angry and say he won't and say I don't trust him.

and I don't - with this - its just too easy and tempting.

I really do trust him in general but - I knw my son - at this point giving him a phone and expecting boundaries is a gzeira he can't handle.

Isn't part of parenting knowing your child and whats in their best interest and then sticking to your guns?

I have self doubt though because of how angry he is...

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:33 am

amother OP wrote:

So I imagine this behavior expresses itself in other areas as well. Can you let him know that you are waiting for him to be at the stage where he can be trusted to keep his word consistently?

amother

Leaf

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:39 am

I agree with him not having his own phone but I honestly am hating this ‘gate keeping’ of phone calls. I’m glad you want to have family time with your son but he’s at an age where he has to want it with you, too. He’s just going to hate you for it when he finds out, and he will find out, if he hasn’t already and that’s why he’s particularly adamant about his own phone.

I cannot emphasize enough how much I hate your gatekeeping phone policy and think it’s a really bad idea

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 2:52 am

amother Goldenrod wrote:

The gate keeping rubs me the wrong way.

I think you are misunderstanding a few things:

Most of his friends do not have their own phones. Its normal to call, speak to a parent/ sibling and ask for your friend.

He doesn't need a phone to have a social life he has one without it, he wants a phone to feel cooler.
He loves spending time with us. We have fun together, my husband does tons of fun things with him and he enjoys our time together.
He spends way more time with his friends than with us. We just want a certain amount of time with him a day, thats all - maybe 30,40 minutes of just being home.

nothing weird or excessive - he's happy to be with us. He would just foolishly chose a friend if one happened to call even if he made plans with my husband; thats why let's say if he and my husband are going our for a run together, and my son is super excited about, and I see his friend call I'll pick up and say, hi Chaim, ____ is busy now call back later.

Thats what I mean by gatekeeping, thats all.

if I'd give him the phone he's talk to his friend and likely chose him over my husband which is so chaval for him, because he loves their time together.

imaima

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 3:00 am

amother OP wrote:

Sounds like you want to be able to manipulate him better.

It is a better chinuch to be open with him, say no and talk every situation through instead of avoiding any tension.