S/o: Seminary is NOT a luxury!

amother

↑ Pumpkin ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:01 am

amother Amber wrote:

If I got to know them better - yes.

When I ask information about them- yes.

It's not bad, just different. Some boys are looking for those girls and some boys aren't.

If boys are looking for seminary girls it's because they have been taught to. Most boys under 25 don't really know what they want. Unless they are in college and have seen some of the world. Yeshiva life for many is in a bubble. Mommy dresses them and they hang on to rebbe's every word. Which is fine if they have been taught how to take care of themselves and a family.

amother

Arcticblue

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:01 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

What did girls/women do for hundreds of thousands of years before there was any sems? They figured it out. I knew what I wanted out of a home, family, marriage not because of my sem year.

Im just finding the reasons for "needing" sem are not a need at all.

You can't really think that our girls are ok with the same things as the girls from 100 years ago... Doesn't take a mastermind, we live in a different universe. The struggles current girls face were unimaginable then.

amother

↑ Pumpkin

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:07 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

And a year of seminary is the answer? Or do we need high schools that prepare the girls for real life? Being able to ask questions and have inspiring speakers. Boys learn gemara and get questions answered that way. My almost 12 year old asks deep questions and she likely won't get the answers in high school. Which is a shame. Showing a love for torah can be done from a young age.

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:07 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

Every generation has its own struggles but that still doesn't answer the question why 12 years of schooling with 4 years of intense high school doesn't provide our girls what they need.

If there is a gap, it makes much more sense to fix our school setup, than to put parents into a position to pay an extra $25k per daughter to get it.

amother

↑ Amber ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:09 am

amother Pumpkin wrote:

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:11 am

amother Amber wrote:

I've had a few sons in shidduchim over the years and I've gotten hundreds of resumes. The percentage of girls who didn't go to seminary is tiny, and I could indeed probably pick them out of a lineup.

I would love to challenge you on this. If you're talking about immediately out of sem - yes. I can pick them out too. Just compare the maturity level of a no sem girl with a sem girl, and you have your answer.

That wasn't what we meant. Move the target age a few years down the line. If we get a line up together of 25 year olds, can you pick out who went to sem? Likely not. What about 30 year olds - even less likely.

amother

↑ Amber ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:12 am

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

I'm looking at girls a few years out of sem. Not 19 year olds.

amother

Mint

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:13 am

The OP is delusional if she thinks seminary is preparing anybody for life.
As an Israeli watching these kids prance around 8 months a year we see what really goes on.
Swiping Dads CC every time they fancy an ice coffee or a good meal out, Being taught by teachers that were never vetted by anybody with credentials and hardly ever need to answer to the parents. And getting high on ideas that they will have to come down from once they arrive back home. All to the tune of 30K dollars.
If that is what US girls (or boys) need in order to learn to brush their own teeth and take public transportation that is very very sad.

amother

Orange ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:13 am

amother Midnight wrote:

Yes, this. At a certain point men staying in yeshiva might be about the mitzvah of Talmud Torah. But it's required for every Jew, male or female, to acquire the basics of Judaism, tanach, emunah, hashkafa, halacha. This needs to be done before building one's own Torah-true home. Most people will not get this just in high school, with the pressure of curricula, grades, and requirements.

This is insane. What are they doing during those 12+ years in school, if they aren't acquiring the BASICS of Judaism?!?

amother

↑ DarkYellow

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:16 am

amother Amber wrote:

[quoteamother Pumpkin"]]If boys are looking for seminary girls it's because they have been taught to. Most boys under 25 don't really know what they want. Unless they are in college and have seen some of the world. Yeshiva life for many is in a bubble. Mommy dresses them and they hang on to rebbe's every word. Which is fine if they have been taught how to take care of themselves and a family.

This is absolutely not true.

If there are 100 girls graduating from high school x, and 95 girls go on to seminary and 5 don't, there is a reason. What is the reason?

If it would be more mainstream not to go to seminary- for example 50 girls went and 50 girls didn't - then the question wouldn't come up as much.[/quote]

The reason used to be, the girl wasn't "good enough" to get accepted into sem.
Now the reason might be, the parents couldn't afford it.
Seminary is important but $25,000 worth it? Come on.

↑ keym ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:17 am

amother Orange wrote:

This is insane. What are they doing during those 12+ years in school, if they aren't acquiring the BASICS of Judaism?!?

Do you feel the same way about a boy in any community taking a gap year or learning 1 year of Bais Medrash post high school.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:17 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

But whatever giels go through now does not make going to sem a need.
It will never be a need. It is 100% a luxury.

Ruchel ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:18 am

The problem is, a number of girls wished they could - and they are better catches than those girls who go kicking and screaming - I said it.

amother

Rose ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:19 am

Solutions
1-Go to work during the day
Attend night classes for torah and hashkafa.
2- half day sem and half day work
Less expensive
Still get hashkafa and chinuch
Join the real world with a balance

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:20 am

amother Mint wrote:

This post is the perfect and correct answer!

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:21 am

amother Amber wrote:

I'm looking at girls a few years out of sem. Not 19 year olds.

Like I said, I would love to challenge you on this. Because I believe this is your mindset and not reality.

Just like school, many seminary girls lives are quite different a few years down the road. Some switched up their path, some added extra stringencies and some remain the same. Going to seminary is not guaranteed to entrench you on any path.

It is life experience and personal circumstances that have a greater impact on the individuals. So while it's a nice thought that people can identify who went to sem and who didn't, it really is just wishful thinking.

↑ keym ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:22 am

amother Rose wrote:

Solutions
1-Go to work during the day
Attend night classes for torah and hashkafa.
2- half day sem and half day work
Less expensive
Still get hashkafa and chinuch
Join the real world with a balance

Why the rush to join the real world?

Why not let her take a gap year like boys. In a cheaper American seminary for 12-15k.

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:24 am

keym wrote:

Why the rush to join the real world?

Why not let her take a gap year like boys. In a cheaper American seminary for 12-15k.

No rush and we let. But it's a luxury to be able to afford to do that.

And 12-15k is still a huge sum of money.

amother

↑ Orange ↓

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:25 am

keym wrote:

Do you feel the same way about a boy in any community taking a gap year or learning 1 year of Bais Medrash post high school.

No, because they're not doing it in order to acquire the BASICS of Judaism. Or rather, I really hope not. They doing what they were created to do, learning Torah on a deep level. Girls were not created for that.

I think it's great to be able to take a year to learn on a deeper level. I just don't think parents should have to bankrupt themselves to do it. I wish we could learn to just pay for what we can afford and not put ourselves into debt for things we don't really really need, which for 99% of girls is an expensive seminary year in Israel.

↑ little neshamala

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 7:29 am

amother Amber wrote:

The reason the 5 of the 100 girls did not choose to go to sem is often that they have a strong sense of self, are used to thinking for themselves, and dont feel the need to blindly follow trends that they dont believe are necessary. Its a good thing.
But comments from people like you are what prevent the other 30 girls in the grade who also didnt feel the pull to go, from actually following through and not going.