Those that are supposed to live simply, making fun of....

Ruchel

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:38 am

I'd tell them just that. Where are their values? And if need be contact the parents.
As a mom and x teacher I just scolded a bully today. Kindergarten. Brazen and all. I was fed up hearing about him all year. With me it doesn't work LOL. He denied it TO MY FACE. But then he calmed down and seeked positive attention.

amother

Forsythia

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:39 am

Yep. And it doesn't end when they are kids. I have gotten comments from adults. Why isn't my baby wearing... why doesn't my toddler have... I can give you my hand me downs so your daughter has stylish clothing....

Sorry but what I wish I could say to them:

I think what your kid is wearing is stupid.
I think it is dumb to buy a baby X that costs so much money when he will just spit up, poop and pee on it.
I have priorities with my money and it isn't to appease you.
I like my kid to wear color and not look either like she is going to a funeral or in a sepia photograph.

Bullies are bullies.
I usually respond with a logical response/something they can't argue with and they get caught off guard.
-My kid likes this and I want her to be happy.
-I don't like the style.

amother

Whitesmoke

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:39 am

amother OP wrote:

I understand. But how does being in to gashmyus align with a torah lifestyle?
They pride themselves that their husband sits and learns all day, yet make me feel as if someone is wrong with us for buying shoes at H&M vs. London Kids where they buy their kids shoes.....
It just seems wrong to me.

I thought it was the kids being mean.. not the mother.

it could very well be that the mother is a very simple kind indivdual who has insecure kids struggling with middos.. its not fair to pin this onto kollel lifestyle (chosen by PARENTS not the KIDS)

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:39 am

amother OP wrote:

Unless they say something to you....you are the one making yourself feel as if you are wrong. The fact that they have a different lifestyle does not have to make you feel inferior. As the saying goes, no one can make you feel inferior without your permission.

As to how gashmiyus aligns with Torah, there are those whose Hashkafa is that Bnei Torah should be elevated. Sort of like the Rhiziner who lived in a palace. The Torah should not be poor and downtrodden. They believe in looking like princes.

(and for some, it's just the good old-fashioned yetzer horah to keep up with the Jones's. No one is immune to that.)

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:42 am

amother OP wrote:

It often seems to me that we have more of a torah home than many that learn all day. I've gotten to the conclusion that a true torah home is more about sacrificing for learning torah, rather than about how many hours one learns in a day.

Again, that is your own conclusion. In reality, only Hashem knows who is sacrificing more for Torah, and whose home is more Torah'dik, and what matters more.....

OP, I'm going to say gently that you sound as judgemental of your neighbors as your perception of them towards you.

ETA perhaps this is because your kids have been hurt. I do understand that. But perhaps your own feelings of inferiority are playing into this.

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:45 am

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

The mothers are the one's dressing their kids in expensive clothing..... they're the one's that are giving over this attitude to their children.
I've gotten subtle comments here & there from mothers, but I just answer back with something.
Now the kids are mocking others.

amother

Nasturtium

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:46 am

Many kollel kids don’t go for the simple and austere kollel lifestyle. They are into clothes, things, and brand names to their parents consternation. Many of them want nothing other than to make it big and do not reflect their parents values in any way.

There are also many kids from balebatishe homes who eschew their parents lifestyle and want nothing other than to live a simple kollel life to their parents consternation.

I know plenty of each. If only our kids would always choose to be carbon copies of ourselves and our values. Until then there is no point in judging parents by their kids taste.

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:47 am

Chayalle wrote:

A mother complimented me on how cute my kids sneakers are and asked me where I got them as her kids need sneakers. When I replied that they're from H&M, she says "my kids are worth more than H&M!"
I was floored.

amother

Lightpink

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:48 am

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Agree - for older kids. Disagree for younger kids. Younger kids generally parrot what they hear at home.

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:49 am

Chayalle wrote:

You think I'm judgmental.
I'm just fed up of the superior attitude the kollel family neighbors are displaying. To comment to me is one thing, I can handle that. But when the kids start being mocked, that's just too much.
I don't feel inferior. But they think that I'm (and others) are inferior. They think that my husband is less frum because he doesn't work in Klei kodesh or learn in kollel....

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:50 am

amother Nasturtium wrote:

The mom's shop for & dress then kids.

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:51 am

amother Forsythia wrote:

Difference of values. I enjoyed dressing up my babies (not in super expensive clothes. I could get sales stuff.....) even if they spit up and poop on it. I remember enjoying a white Shabbos pants/shirt set I got for my infant daughter. A little oxi kept it spotless for the season. Ditto for white shabbos dresses when she was a toddler.

I used to have a neighbor whose young kids (babies, toddlers) came out on Shabbos afternoon in the same clothes they had been wearing to the meal and had gotten dirty. You could see the grape juice stains and chulent all over the clothes. She told me they have a "hashkafa" that you don't change kids, it's not necessary and is gashmiyusdik.

For myself, I was grossed out and felt bad for the kids. My hashkafa is that a baby/toddler is a ben/bas melech just like an adult. They deserve to be clean and put-together. If they spit up and poop they deserve to be changed and kept as clean as possible.

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:53 am

amother OP wrote:

I am too! She sounds like a shallow person. I would be asking you your shopping secrets.

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:53 am

Chayalle wrote:

Kids wearing clean clothes, doesn't equal wearing expensive brand name clothes & mocking those that don't!
Of course kids should be clean & wear clean clothes. But said clean clothes don't have to be expensive brand name clothing.

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:56 am

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Do you know that the mom is on board with her husband’s lifestyle?

Sure. They pride themselves that their husbands are in kollel & think that it's assur to work in a non klei kodesh job.
They seriously think that a man that has a non klei kodesh job, is less frum.
Their attitude is very hurtful.
My husband is really mosar nefesh himself for Torah. But in their eyes, we're less frum.

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:56 am

amother OP wrote:

It sounds like some of your neighbors have shallow values (and bad middos). This has nothing to do with Kollel.
I used to live in a pretty wealthy area near yeshiva, and there were lots of supported Kollel families. Some of them were the nicest people I've ever met - the most caring, generous, kind. There were no issues between their kids in their Burberry playing with mine in their Old Navy outfits. I never got any such comments. (I did get stunning hand-me-downs from my neighbor, designer and all because that's what she had, when I fostered a little boy for a while and had no clothes for him.)

amother

Sage

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:57 am

amother OP wrote:

I understand. But to me, kollel lifestyle is supposed to be a simple lifestyle & not a lifestyle of being in to brand name expensive clothing. To me it just seems off that those that are supposed to live a simple lifestyle, are mocking those that do live a simple lifestyle.

How is one family who has bad middos a representative of anything? Is this about your bad neighbor or about trying to underhandedly bash people that don’t act like your neighbor with bad middos?

amother

Nasturtium

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:58 am

amother OP wrote:

Sounds like a lot of mind reading and assumptions here. Is this a kollel bashing thread or a legitimate complaint?