Vent- who is getting the tzeddakah?

amother

Milk

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 5:32 pm

amother PlumPink wrote:

Not BMG but I know of two smaller Lakewood kollels that do and others not in Lakewood but still in tristate.

Smaller kollelim often have strict criteria. They're hard to get into, you need to follow certain rules, show that you are really learning...

Every time we have this come up on imamother posters are like - well, we're not against the REAL learners getting help. These are the real learners... are you still saying it?

amother

Candycane

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 5:47 pm

My theory is that many people who are in kollel or rebbes get support.
Think about it. A guy gets married. He needs to provide for his family. He wishes he could be a rebbe or in Kollel but he knows he needs to provide for his family so he gets a different job.
A guy who knows he will be supported by family gets the luxury of being able to choose a job that might not make money but he finds it spiritually uplifting.
I’m my sons Cheder many of the Rebbes are “rich”. Either being supported by parents in laws or their wives have good jobs.
I’m happy that one of my sons rebbes goes to Mexico every year with his wife that his parents pay for, I’m happy that one of the rebbes goes to a fancy pesach program every year, I’m happy that another rebbe has a fancier house than we do. I’m happy that some rebbes drive nice cars.
I want my kids to look up to people in kodesh and think “that’s the cool life”.
Instead of seeing teachers who are bearly scrapping it together, are burnt out, and the kids get a message that kodesh isn’t cool.
P.S. there are many teacher that are bearly managing too. I admire their dedication and I wish my kids teachers teachers lived nicer than I did.

amother

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 6:46 pm

Thanks for those who validated. For those who think I am making things up or just bashing.... just because you don't know this happens doesn’t make it a lie.
And THIS IS NOT ABOUT LAKEWOOD.
This is about priorities. Assumptions that only kollel or chinuch are needy. That just because someone is working doesn't mean that they can support others.
That if someone isn't dressing their kids in high fashion doesn't mean they don't care. They just might not be able to afford.
That working people may be worse off than those on programs.
The solution isn't to say "well just teach/be in kollel if you want the help". Do you want teachers who do it just for the bonuses/gifts/programs? No.
Maybe we should prioritize help to those who need based on after tax income AND what other programs/help they qualify for and make sure people aren't "double dipping" because it is available.

amother

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 6:49 pm

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

OP, why dint you cut your hours/pay so you can qualify for benefits? If your bemoaning the fact themat people who make less get Medicaid and SNAP amd you don't?

Because I will lose my job entirely. I can't just do half days for half pay.
And when we lost a job the community/shul didn't help. And no tuition discount even though we lost over half our income. "Figure it out".

amother

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 6:50 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

I didn’t read the Lakewood thread.

If OP had said that kollel families shouldn’t get tzeddakah because the men could go out and work, that would be kollel bashing. But OP was expressing frustration with the system that automatically gives tzeddakah to kollel families without asking any questions and will deny it to people that earn too much but are actually struggling.

The reason this topic keeps coming up on imamother is because it keeps coming up in people’s lives. Just because you’re in kollel and are struggling doesn’t mean it’s not true. As chayalle said, it might be different in Lakewood because of all the kollel families. I don’t know.

I’ve said this in other threads… unless you’re in this income bracket, you really can’t understand it. It’s a problem across America, but so much worse in the frum world.

Thank you. It is so so hard.

amother

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 1:36 am

amother Candycane wrote:

It’s not dishonest. If you make less than a certain amount you can get benefits.
I know people who cut hours or asked for pay cut because it came out more worth it for them to get the benefits.

As I said- we still don't get community support.
We DID lose a ton of income which is why we are in this situation. I called the school crying and they told us too bad. No discount. Even though we don't make it through the month. We showed them our income and our expenses.
Since we have made money in the past they assume we could if we needed to. Despite trying we can't.
And if I cut my hours they would say "just get your hours back up".

Some people just don't get it.

amother

Banana

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:54 pm

amother Candycane wrote:

Your mixing up kollel and rebbes. Those are not the same. Kollel families could be young and dont have young kids ans dont need extra tzadaka. A person learning would rely on outside support. Wife and family. Many learn in kollel for years because they have family to help support them. If they can't be supported by family they should stop. Kollel. Some people can't afford to learn anymore they want to stay in torah chinuch family so the wife or husband gets a chinuch job. I personally feel like for my kids chinuch is better when their teachers are noyt rolling in money and doing it because for the kovid and because all of there last name. All their relatives are teachers and rebbes. with the right reasons in mind. They don't dress too trendy they don't take off for to travel 3x a year for their fifth cousins wedding. We had some of those teachers too. Teachers and other poor people in need should definitely get tzadaka if their salary doesn't cover their living expenses.

amother

Chicory

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 1:06 pm

amother Candycane wrote:

Zero of my kids rebbeim live large. They would never go to Mexico for financial AND hashkafic reasons. They live in small houses.
Maybe you're in the wrong schools.

amother

Camellia

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 4:35 pm

amother Chicory wrote:

Zero of my kids rebbeim live large. They would never go to Mexico for financial AND hashkafic reasons. They live in small houses.
Maybe you're in the wrong schools.

Agree

My boys are in a simple school (which is why they have a hard time raising money in their campaigns unfortunately. We use our maaser to donate $2-6000 throughout the year)
And the rebbeim are so simple. Rented homes or own but simple. Chasunahs in the 2 simplest halls in town. Every penny they get they deserve and I wish they’d get more, I wish I was a billionaire and could give each one a trust fund. They and their wives are true heroes. Their wives work hard, they work hard and the spend time after hours as well. They are giving my kids the most amazing introduction to Torah. It’s priceless.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:02 pm

OP, the kollel in your town must be very unique because I know no other kollel like that.

We are a kollel family of many many years bh. Through hard work, not being supported. My job, dh does side tutoring jobs, I have something else small I do on the side....

We dont get handouts, we don't get automatic tuition discounts (you have to apply and give them all your numbers and it's individualized, no special kollel rate), we don't get anything like what you describe.

And we live the simple life. You wouldn't believe how old our minivan is. I take hand me downs and also buy last years stuff end of season clearance for the next year.

So much inaccurate speculation about kollel from some posters here.

amother

Bellflower

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:59 pm

amother Seashell wrote:

Why the rage at bnei Torah?? Can’t it be “ I’m poor and I need help” rather than I’m poor and they are not? Or I’m poor and I’m hurting?

The rage isn't at bnei Torah (except that one very condescending woman who treated OP like garbage for not being rich). It's at community institutions that only see you as worthy of help if you live a certain way. That view poverty as a choice if you're working poor. G-d willing, all members of our communities should merit to live comfortably with dignity and security.

amother

Yesterday at 12:42 pm

amother Bellflower wrote:

Exactly.
I called the school again. I still haven't heard back from them regarding tuition for next year. We did the scholarship application months ago and they haven't sent us any message about it.
The person said "we are not a tzeddakah and families need to reach out to other organizations and get outside help".
What?
You want my kids to go to public school? Because that is pretty much the choice here.
I can't cut my hours to get food stamps because the amount I would need to cut wouldn't make it back in benefits. I would also put my job at risk and may not have it back when DH gets a job.
My kids have specific medical needs. Family is helping with some of those costs.
We did reach out. We did reach out to our shul etc.
I don't have family who can help like this!
We don't have fancy lives. My shoes have holes. My car is old (necessity to drive where I live OOT). My kids don't wear brand names unlike others in the community. Unless Target is considered fancy. One kid is wearing Walmart brand clothes today.

But I guess my kids are heading to public school?!? If we don't have money we don't have money. We aren't hiding it. He is looking for a job. I told the finance person all of this. I will call again on Monday crying. Because I can't handle kids in public school and can't avoid feeding my kids.