I am very curious about not making aliyah

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:17 pm

amother Babypink wrote:

Maybe this is controversial but in my circles (yeshivish lite/JPF) the only families who make Aliyah are those with “issues”. Not bad people but atypical in different ways. For example, many come from dysfunctional parents so have no close family ties keeping them in the US. Some have extreme financial, school, or social issues and it’s they’re hoping for a positive change in a new place. At the end of the day picking up your family and moving to a new country, changing your language, culture, friends, jobs is a radical act, a beautiful one but still radical, and most settled, healthy people in my circles understandably don’t do it.

What complete nonesense. I know yeshivish and jpf families that have made aliyah with zero issues.
Your post is ridiculous. Maybe those who YOU know were like that but definitely not even most in the yeshivish jpf families making aliyah have issues.
What a bizarre post. Really.

amother

↑ Daphne ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:27 pm

amother Babypink wrote:

I guess we’re glad to be one of “those with issues”, unhealthy, radical and unsettled; your words, not mine.

After all, in the USA, we owned a remodeled medium sized home in a beautiful neighborhood with very special neighbors OOT but in a large community, earned 250k, we’re rising at work, kids thriving in schools, had full retirement, a rav, shul, community and family close by.

Here, we see Hashem every day in every way, every second. We live a more fulfilling and deep life where we better understand pasukim and have access to rabbanim. We’re with our people. We feel like a nation. I don’t really on other nations. I feel strong and I’m more me. My mitzvot count, everything done in chutz laaretz is actually just practice for here. My kids are thriving once again. My house is almost built. We couldn’t be more thankful to Hashem or see His hand more clearly. I’m just sorry you think we lived a messed up life and you live a real one because I think you may have it backwards.

↑ Reality ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:28 pm

Success10 wrote:

My observations are similar to this. Many of those who chose to live away from their family and hometown often have a reason for it, beyond just their love for Israel. It doesn't mean they are off or dysfunctional, though.

This is just so not true. My yeshivish family who live here all started out as coming to learn for a year or so. They fell in love with Yerushalayim and stayed. They are not dysfunctional or running away from their family or their home town.

Other people I know fell in love with Israel through birthrite trips or other trips. They couldn't necessarily come right away but they kept it on the back burner and moved when they could. Some as newlyweds, others with kids already.

The idea that everyone who makes aliyah is dysfunctional and socially off and has a complicated family relationship is beyond rude.

I made aliyah because it was time to move out of NY and the only place we wanted to live was Israel. That makes us dysfunctional? One of the hardest parts of making aliyah was leaving my amazing family. The fact that we left made us dysfunctional but the fact that a different sibling moved away for a job makes them normal?

↑ Success10 ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:33 pm

Reality wrote:

I hope you're not accusing me of saying that, cuz I didn't.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:36 pm

Success10 wrote:

This is really the strangest thing I have heard.
I know charedi families who have made aliyah. They made aliyah because they wanted to make their lives here in Israel. Not for any other reasons.

↑ Success10 ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:44 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

This is really the strangest thing I have heard.
I know charedi families who have made aliyah. They made aliyah because they wanted to make their lives here in Israel. Not for any other reasons.

Ok, so my personal observations are that a bunch of them had additional reasons. I was personally single when I made aliyah. Of our group of friends, some had complicated home lives. Some came from extreme OOT places that they had no future in. Some were BT or frummer than their homes and it was complicated to live at home. All of us loved Israel regardless. Again, I'm just stating what I've seen in my life. It's not backed up with scientific studies.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:53 pm

Success10 wrote:

Agreed. I know a few people who had family here, one parent was Israeli, again something besides a love of Israel was pushing them.

My parents had a love for Israel but yeah we lived very OOT, no future for us, BT parents, not really any family ties holding us down.

It's rare that a happy settled family living in NY near their grandparents, cousins, and entire extended family chooses to move away to Israel with no family support, help, and miss out on all those close relationships, pull their kids from schools they are happy in, and search for new jobs and learn a whole new language.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:53 pm

Success10 wrote:

So then thats just a few you know.
But you and the other posters who said this as THE reason people came, to me, makes no sense, and is just not over all true. I know many charedim, yeshivish families who came solely because they wanted to makr their lives here.

↑ Success10 ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:57 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

All the Chareidim I know who live here because they want to make their lives here. If it was just about running away from something, they could have gone to Australia (unless they were running from Australia).

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:58 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

It is not rare. You and the others just seem to only know those that were making aliyah with baggage of some sort.
But not all charedi olim have baggage. Many or dare I say most, come ONLY because they want to make their lives here.
AND charedim come from many places, not only NY.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 3:59 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

There are those people as well, but generally those of them I've met are BT and therefore don't have family close by they go to for chagim or get support from Or have their kids growing up with etc.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 4:01 pm

Success10 wrote:

You said above that there were additional reasons they came, not only their love of eretz yisrael.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 4:02 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Of course they do! I know tons and tons of olim. There's other reasons as well, but in general it's a huge life shift and many people have things like family, jobs, and settled happy kids that would cause them not to consider it even if they really wanted it. (I gave NY as an example because there's its more common to have all your extended family living nearby)

The luxury of having happy kids, friends, good jobs, and family to lean on and support you is not something easily taken for granted, and it's a big decision to leave that all behind. Whether it's to move to Israel or somewhere else in the USA.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 4:02 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

There are those people as well, but generally those of them I've met are BT and therefore don't have family close by they go to for chagim or get support from Or have their kids growing up with etc.

Ok, so then thats one subset of charedi olim.
Not most charedi olim.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 4:04 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

You said above that there were additional reasons they came, not only their love of eretz yisrael.

I think we're both saying those other things are factors that might make someone more likely to decide to come to Israel.

I have many many people that have a huge love for Israel, but there's things holding them back from actually moving here.

It's a huge lifechanging decision. Husband and kids need to be on board....

↑ LovesHashem

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 4:06 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ok, so then thats one subset of charedi olim.
Not most charedi olim.

Others I met were young couples who moved when they were young so didn't have to think about transferring kids or jobs, and ended up staying. Or older couples with mainly married children, some maybe who are living here.

As a teen who made aliyah as a teen, I've met a lot of teens and talked to them, and they've opened up to me when they eloke oh you get it. Teens who have made aliyah. I've rarely met someone who's family solely moved for the their love of Israel.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 4:07 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Of course its a big decision. And every oleh/olah has to make that decidion.
It has nothing to do eith being a bt or not. Having other issues or not.
When someone gets that pull to make aliyah, they are going to be giving things up. Many, even ffbs are going to be giving up family support. And thats what WANTING to make aliyah is about, gibing things up, for something greater than all that (im assuming thsts what is felt)

And about extended family living near each other, thst happens all over the globe Smile

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Jun 22 2024, 4:10 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Well the charedi family I have and friends I have, who are part of the charedi communities have made aliyah because they wanted to raise their families here. Some came with babies. Some with children a bit older. But for that reason. No other underlying reason. 🤷🏻‍♀️