Vent- who is getting the tzeddakah?

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 10:00 am

amother Denim wrote:

It's hard not to feel resentful when people who get tzedaka seem to be doing better than us.
My family collected for a relative whose husband works but isn't very successful. They bought a house thanks to the family tzedaka and it's so hard knowing that they get a house while I'm struggling to pay rent.
But I also don't want my family to collect for me...

I have a relative who is very dysfunctional. Both she and her husband work lower paying jobs, but they do not have a large family, their expenses are such that if they would be careful and economize they could probably make it, perhaps with a little assistance.
The thing is, they "need" to go on vacation (think renting nice air BNB in the country because they absolutely "have" to get away, flights to a cousin's wedding because they "need" it), they eat out all the time because they "needed to treat themselves" and such. They skip months paying their rent, get threatened with eviction, start a go-fund-me page, catch up, and then the cycle starts all over again.

I'm a simple struggling Mom and we never go anywhere, I haven't been ever in any of the luxury restaurants in town beyond the once-in-a-blue pizza or takeout (and even those are truly once-in-a-while), we live really simply.
I don't feel like enabling this particular relative, I don't feel I need to contribute to her lifestyle.

I also don't resent not having what she has. I have much more. I BH have a normal stable life, she and her kids don't.

amother

Gold

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 10:42 am

Chayalle wrote:

I'm a Kollel wife of many years, but I grew up like OP describes. My family was the middle class - no government programs, higher tuitions because the school needed to save the discounts for the Kollel families, whose kids all came to the shul we davened in wearing the newest brand new clothes from the frum stores while we wore hand-me-downs.

I've seen both sides. I don't think we should get rid of any organizations, but I do think that people don't understand the struggle of the middle-class non-Kollel JPF population.

As a kollel wife, did you get all these amazing discounts and free stuff that people are always talking about? I don't. I'm so confused with the way people paint kollel as the easy life with no stress and so much financial and emotional support. I don't see these handouts at all. I also don't see the respect from society that people say we get.

amother

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:04 am

Wow, I feel so judged. Haven't read all the comments on this thread because I feel worse. Way to kick someone when they are down.
I didn't participate in any BMG or Lakewood threads so no idea what that was about. I don't live there so why should I comment on the specific community thread?! Not all threads were connected.
And I don't come on here often so if I missed a thread asking if people asked and didn't get-- sorry, I was too busy trying to work to buy bread for my kids to answer your poll. That doesn't mean I don't exist or that my story is fake.

I was venting.
My local shul collects a lot. They claim it goes to the community but when we asked a few times we got nothing. And the Rav knows what is going on for us financially.
Somehow all the kollel wives can buy new clothes before YT and each season. And one laughed how I don't. And criticized my lack of spending. (Great middos for someone who is supposed to be living a Torah lifestyle).
It was a question on community priorities.
It is not just tuition and why doesn't someone help me pay. But I was venting and complaining about how the community leaders decide to give their "Rabbis fund" or Maos Chitim out. And why can't people see that the working poor are poorer than the non working poor.
(And this isn't a general kollel bash. I was talking about A SINGLE kollel. And I wasnt trying to bash them. I was venting and wondering how the money is prioritized. Especially as someone who donated in the past before we had this current struggle.)

And stop saying we should enter kollel. We are "too old" to start and no community would accept us as a kollel family. At least where we live it is a whole process... that isn't an answer because if everyone joined kollel no one would be able to support it. Families should be given help if they need it.

Now I need to read the rest of the posts if I dare... Crying

Chayalle

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:09 am

amother Gold wrote:

No I have not.
I have shopped seasons ahead to get my kids clothes at 70% off (I do care to dress them nicely, as much as I can. They didn't have tottini when my kids were growing up, though for that matter, with my youngest I shopped Tottini - yep, you guessed it - a season ahead to get it all on sale.)
I do remember years ago someone I knew told me about an organization that gives clothes out to people in need. And I even know someone who is involved in that particular organization. I think it's for the super-struggling people - and nothing to do with Kollel AFAIK though they may service some Kollel people (if they still exist, this was like 20 years ago.) I never considered going there.
I know Mrs. Shanik runs Ahavas Tzedaka that helps some people, though I could never figure out who to be honest. I was involved with a super-dysfunctional struggling family some years ago and I tried to apply for them to get some help there, but gave up - apparently they were maxed out and I couldn't get them on the list. That year I gave my maaser money to this family, whom I knew, instead of to Ahavas Tzedakah, as I don't know who they service (though I'm sure they are a great tzedakah.)
I will tell you though, when I grew up (not in Lakewood), the Kollel families in my shul all were dressed to the hilt every YT. They lived in subsidized housing, got massive tuition breaks (I know that first hand, my mother AH worked in the office of the local yeshiva), food stamps, etc...but I have never seen the parallel of this in Lakewood.

amother

PlumPink

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:21 am

amother OP wrote:

I know exactly what you are talking about.

OP, welcome to imamother. The most neutral of threads will have angry people taking things personally and getting belligerently defensive.

My husband is working . I have two brother in laws in kollel. Over the past two years , they both received a free Irene wig. One of them got a few hundred dollar gift certificate to Brenda’s and purchased high end items. They both have their monthly home payments heavily subsidized, huge tuition reductions, and are on government insurance. One of them gets food stamps and they can ‘buy’ all sorts of things I can never get because of the price tag.
My husband and I work our brains out, pay everything in full out of pocket and live tightly paycheck to paycheck. Yet we get poked fun of that we are ‘rich’ because we work.

People assume working = rich and Kollel = poor. However , this connects with the low income vs middle class issue that is going on in society at large. The people who are eligible for benefits often live better and have less sleepless nights than middle class who get no hand outs and have high taxes and need to pay expenses like health insurance etc.

Sigh.

amother

Gold

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:32 am

Chayalle wrote:

I don't know anyone who gets this being in Kollel. Free sheitels, gift certificates to Brendas (I walked in there once at a sale time, and walked right out. Even their sale prices are not for me.), huge tuition reductions?

Sounds like I missed the memo....

Thank you for all your validation. These threads make me feel like I missed the memo. I never shop in any of these stores. I don't get any free stuff or breaks. I feel the same way that these threads always start- frustrated by tuition hikes and lack of support etc. But then I end up feeling attacked as if I'm the one taking the resources from everybody but I'm really in the same boat.

amother

Mintgreen

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:34 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

If op just vented about not getting tzedaka, I could understand it and I would be much more sympathetic. Instead op said this:

I have a sneaking suspicion that they give it to the families in the kollel attached to our shul. And not to regular families as they make it sound. But they are living a better life than we do- they get WIC, SNAP, cheaper tuition, subsidized babysitting, and other community programs for kollel families. Even without family support. So the benefits outweigh the "extra" taxable income I make. Taxable. Yep. I pay taxes when they get "refunds" but it isn't a refund if they don't pay the federal tax "fund" to begin with.

Nothing I can do about it. But I wish people stop assuming kollel=poor and working=rich. And I wish we could get help.
Yeah there are people not making it on programs too. But not these people. They somehow have money for vacations, matching clothing for the kids... and then are shocked that my toddler doesn't have shabbos shoes. Or one kollel wife called to offer me her kids old/outdated hand me downs "because I clearly don't care about what's in style and fashion". She has no idea our financial state. She wanted to get rid of her daughters too small clothing and clean out her closet and figured I don't care, why not? (Her kid is younger and smaller than mine of that gender!). She just judged me. When I debated buying my kids a new pair of pants. And clearly she is able to afford the stylish in season clothes that she can laugh at my expense.

Puce said this
Totally agree with you, I find that so many kollel/ rebbe families have bought houses etc. while we the working class struggle.

In combo with the Lakewood thread, I felt the additional paragraph were not justified.

I didn’t read the Lakewood thread.

If OP had said that kollel families shouldn’t get tzeddakah because the men could go out and work, that would be kollel bashing. But OP was expressing frustration with the system that automatically gives tzeddakah to kollel families without asking any questions and will deny it to people that earn too much but are actually struggling.

The reason this topic keeps coming up on imamother is because it keeps coming up in people’s lives. Just because you’re in kollel and are struggling doesn’t mean it’s not true. As chayalle said, it might be different in Lakewood because of all the kollel families. I don’t know.

I’ve said this in other threads… unless you’re in this income bracket, you really can’t understand it. It’s a problem across America, but so much worse in the frum world.

Chayalle

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:36 am

amother PlumPink wrote:

Of course not everyone!
However, I am validating OP that this does exist, and these situations are the ones that cause resentment.

I doubt it is widespread, unless it's in some specific community somewhere. Please tell me which organization in Lakewood is giving out free Irene's.

(some time back BMG offered new wigs at a discount price for sale to long-term Kollel wives. I looked into it. Besides for the fact that I couldn't afford the discounted price at the time anyway, I heard that the quality of the wigs offered were pretty substandard - a not-so-great line that the seller wanted to get rid of. So I didn't bother. I can't afford to blow money on something short-term and cheap either. But free wigs for Kollel wives, I have not heard of.)

amother

PlumPink

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:38 am

amother Gold wrote:

No one is attacking you. This is about the cases where kollel people are getting these hand outs. Of course not all kollel people do. There are many kollel people who live simply and work hard to make kollel happen with sincerity . This post is not about you !

amother

PlumPink

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:39 am

Chayalle wrote:

Not BMG but I know of two smaller Lakewood kollels that do and others not in Lakewood but still in tristate.

amother

Daylily

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 11:39 am

OP, I really get your perspective on what kollel+luxuries+possibly tzedaka looks like.
As a kollel wive with b"H a nice salary, we never had a low enough income to qualify for any govt programs. we did occasionally receive bonuses/gifts from the kollel-but the people who donated knew clearly what it was for (eg: this money will be given as cash to every kollel member")
and even when we can afford more luxuries, our view (me and dh) is that there's a limit to what we should spend, simply because we're a kollel family. because we live that way, we may be the kollel family buying a house young without help, but we're not the same family that buys new, matching clothes every season or goes on expensive vacations.
I just want to mention that kollel families that look like they have a lot of luxury in one area may be seriously cutting back in another...like if they get gift cards for fancy clothing, they can't spend it on food for shabbos, so they could be walking around dressed like millionaires while they cut every possible corner in their grocery budget. doesn't mean none of them have both and also doesn't help you-I get that!
It's not at all ok for someone to laugh at you for not buying the current styles, whether it was your choice or not.
I also think that if it's true that the shul's fund is only for kollel families, then it should be clear. (did they say why you can't have any?) But even if 90% of the kollel families are actually doing well, it may be the other 10% getting the money. here we could argue whether a kollel family or working family in the same financial situation should get priority for limited funds, and I would think it should be based on how the fund is advertised to donors.

amother

Amethyst

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 4:29 pm

I honestly don't have any first hand knowledge but I would strongly suspect that any kollel family who is living an upper middle class life is doing that because they come from some kind of wealth and their income is heavily supported by family - could be parents - could be grandparents.

Since gifts aren't counted as income for government benefits, they could be receiving those although I don't honestly think that someone who doesn't have significant family support is living a lavish lifestyle based on government benefits - obviously their net income is higher but it isn't upper middle class level

I have a friend with that kind of "secret" wealth because based on her lifestyle you would think she is just comfortable but grandparents paid for all education for all of the kids - for starters. They all have trust funds and were gifted with $1 million plus homes for cash - probably more like $3 million since they live in an expensive area.