Tuition makes me hate being frum

amother

↑ Forestgreen

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:25 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

As someone who doesn't have cleaning help, does not eat out, doesn't buy designer clothing or shoes... this assumption hurts the ones who are struggling the most.

(I will also point out that many people have told us that in our circumstances we SHOULD have cleaning help, and that if I described some of our challenges I'm sure people would tell us to buy takeout meals every so often.)

If tuition was affordable for even folks like me, we could work on shifting community pressures to support paying tuition over that type of spending. When tuition is out of reach for a significant majority of the population, there's a problem.

I don’t get the hate on cleaning help and takeout. It’s the ticket to my sanity.

amother

↑ Broom ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:28 pm

amother Forestgreen wrote:

I don’t get the hate on cleaning help and takeout. It’s the ticket to my sanity.

It's very expensive. If you can afford it great but if you can't then it's a luxury. Who doesn't want cleaning help and not to have to cook? But I feel like I should pay my tuition before spending money on luxuries.

↑ Trademark

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:28 pm

amother Forestgreen wrote:

I don’t get the hate on cleaning help and takeout. It’s the ticket to my sanity.

People here are often extremely frugal and unrealistic.

You are overspending if you eat more than pasta for dinner if you have a very tight budget and barely making the month.

mummiedearest

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:28 pm

Yes, it’s upsetting. It’s been called “the tuition crisis” for decades now (we love calling things crises, I’ve noticed), but it’s not going to change. We have become a society that values external appearances to such a degree that no one will opt for a dinky school. There are ways to change things, but you’d need the organizing energy and a group of like-minded families. It’s not easy to go against the group. But there are choices out there, most of us just choose not to do those things.

amother

Eggplant ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:29 pm

amother Viola wrote:

1,000 per kid per year is way less than people spend on simchas per child. So why is it that tuition get all the gate, instead of elaborate simchas?

I'm not directing this at you, op. But the view towards tuition costs are widespread, but so haven't seen the hatred much for the things we choose to spend on that cost even more.

Because tuition is not $1000 per child per year.
At even a reduced rate of $6000 per child, per year, I spend $84,000 on tuition for a child from kindergarten -12th grade.
And at an average rate of $10,000 we spend $140,000 per child.

I made a bar mitzvah including tefillin and clothing for the bar mitzvah boy that cost $10,000 soup to nuts.
That's nothing on these numbers.

amother

↑ Broom ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:29 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I specifically said this wasn't true for everyone and there are people who legit need the tuition help. But more people need help now because many are living above their means. If some people would cut back and be able to pay more tuition than there would be more help available for people who legit needed it.

amother

↑ Cadetblue ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:30 pm

amother Viola wrote:

Where on earth do you find tuition at $1,000 per kid per year? It's more like $1,000 per kid per month. And even if people are paying that much for a Bar Mitzvah, that's once. Only for boys. And not every single year.

I do agree that simchas should be pared down, but there is only so much that can do. Chasunas, even takana weddings, are not cheap. High quality Tefillin (something worth investing in IMHO) are thousands of dollars.

Elaborate simchas have already gotten hate repeatedly, and there are people working to make more affordable options available. But again, those are one-time affairs. Not the equivalent of buying a Maserati in cash every year (what I'm expected to pay in combined tuition for my family).

amother

↑ Broom ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:31 pm

Trademark wrote:

People here are often extremely frugal and unrealistic.

You are overspending if you eat more than pasta for dinner if you have a very tight budget and barely making the month.

And other people go the opposite extreme and say cleaning help 2-3x a week is a necessity even if they don't have the funds for it.

Cheiny ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:33 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thats all. We are tearing our hair out because we have no money. We live incredibly frugally. But paying an extra $3k a month just for tuition is making me so resentful.

And your other bills don’t? High food bills? Rent/mortgage? Seems like selective blaming.

amother

↑ Cadetblue ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:34 pm

amother Broom wrote:

Tuition alone creates a reality where people are forced to live above their means.

amother

↑ Viola

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:41 pm

Trademark wrote:

People here are often extremely frugal and unrealistic.

You are overspending if you eat more than pasta for dinner if you have a very tight budget and barely making the month.

People are just looking at the hard numbers and trying to find where there's room to cut back. I guess that less unrealistic, and it's more realistic to expect the budget to balance through wishful thinking.

amother

↑ Eggplant

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:43 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

Tuition alone creates a reality where people are forced to live above their means.

So true
Looking at the average and median salaries in general Jewish areas.

Even an average family of 5 children with an average tuition of 10k a year is already almost half the median family salary.

A family with the father as an accountant ft, the mother is a PT 28 hours a week.
The median for such a family is 120k (80k for the father, 40k for the mother).
Subtract taxes, student loans (to get those jobs), cheap rent and utilities, health insurance, and 50k for tuition and another 20k for daycamp (so the parents can work) there is nothing left for food. Or clothing. Or gas.

That tells me that the average earning family with an average size family can't afford to pay average tuition - then something is wrong.
Because we can't sustain a world that as a community we ALL are high earners. We need average earners also.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 2:22 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

We do seem to feel an obligation as a community to to provide subsidized food and clothing and emergency medical care and roadside assistance, among other things. That's what Tomchei Shabbos, Yom Tov clothing distributions, Hatzolah, and Chaveirim are all about. We do feel a communal sense of responsibility.

Yet the one area where communal obligation is a historic requirement, we now claim must be the responsibility of each family, even when those numbers are completely impossible for the average family to manage.

Even public school is actually community funded.

Actually yeshivas don’t say that it’s the responsibility for each family to come up with full tuition. It’s the people who pay full tuition who are helping those who can’t afford it and get necessary discounts.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 2:24 pm

amother Broom wrote:

It's a community problem. More people need assistance now because they are living above their means.

I agree. Someone asked on another thread if $120 sneakers are necessary for a young teen. Clearly they’re not. Things have just gotten ridiculous out there with people who can’t afford it feeling they need to bankrupt themselves in order to keep up with the Cohens.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 2:29 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who can afford tuition but demand and get breaks anyway, while they spend freely on their numerous vacations (please don’t start with, “We need the mental health breaks or would have a nervous breakdown.” Im not referring to that…there were threads about the “necessity” of going to Fla for winter break because “everyone else in the class is going.” That shouldn’t apply to people who can’t afford it and are getting tuition breaks), designer pocketbooks and clothes, new cars, etc.

They simply feel like tuition is last on their list of what they choose to spend for. That’s not ok.

amother

Milk

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 2:47 pm

Not sure if someone said this but isn’t there a community in Deal NJ where they all agree to send to public school? So limudei kodesh is up to the parents or Sunday school and the rest they get in a public school with many other orthodox kids. We need to start this in Lakewood lol

↑ BaltoMom65 ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 2:51 pm

Not everyone is struggling because they live above their stations. Why is it so hard to believe that people legitimately have financial problems due to no fault of their own? It's insane and insensitive. And very narrow minded and naive

↑ Cheiny

Thu, Jun 20 2024, 3:08 pm

BaltoMom65 wrote:

No one denies that. You also can’t deny many people take advantage and get breaks when they’re not entitled to them.