Your dd has a friend over... WWYD

amother

↑ Coral

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 3:17 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

Sorry but no. I'm probably the world's biggest introvert and random people stop over for shabbos all the time. I always invite them in no matter who else is here, chitchat even thought I just want my space and my book, and make everyone feel included and welcome. It's basic middos and my kids are growing up learning to do the same. How in the world can a parent teach a child that it's ok to turn someone away from your home??

Are you saying I should force her to have multiple girls over even if she finds it very uncomfortable?

I strongly encourage, but I don't agree that forcing is the way to go. Please don't compare her to an adult woman. She is a child- still learning how to be herself.

amother

↑ Cherry

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 3:31 pm

To the mother who is teaching her daughter to tune into her feelings... from a psychological perspective, I think this is exactly the crux of the problem.
We're so busy trying to be politically correct, that we forget the very basics, as a Jewish we are being rachmonim. It's not always comfortable for us but in the long run having good middos pays off.

amother

↑ Amethyst

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 3:38 pm

Honestly, this thread is making me so sad what we have come to as a society.

Between this idea of not going out of our comfort zone to befriend others and the other constant refrain of not doing chessed when we feel taken advantage of or promoting self-care above all other considerations... we're losing the core of what being Jewish is all about. There has to be a middle way.

I'm so sorry OP that your daughter is experiencing this. I hope things look up for her really soon.

oohlala ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 3:46 pm

If my daughter already has a friend over I usually say she’s not available and I’m sure she would love to spend time with you another day. I have found that often three way playdates do not work well. We don’t live in a block where kids just drop in and play in packs… I really think it depends on the culture of your block. I have done this numerous times without anyone feeling bad.

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 3:48 pm

oohlala wrote:

How do you know that the girl you sent away doesn't feel bad? You think she would let you know that, or the mother would call you up to tell you?

CPenzias

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 3:52 pm

Iymnok wrote:

"I'm sorry, I/she already has a friend over. Maybe another time."
That is unless they want her to join.
A knock on the door isn't an automatic invitation. Some friends don't work well in more than pairs.
We get this answer when calling for a playdate. While disappointing, we understand. If a 12yo is hurt, and can't understand, that's in her. You are clear and polite.

Eww no. This is a terrible thing to do. Why would you want to hurt a child like this? Unless she's mean to your child. I think this is a really disgusting thing to do.

amother

Lightcyan

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 4:00 pm

We have a balance B"H.
We are encouraging and inclusive
however we do not socially engineer our preteen and older kids' playdates and social life. We do priorize the play date that is already happening and that may have been planned in advance.
We do prioritize middos and v ahavta lerechya kamocha
while teaching our children it is ok and healthy to have boundaries

so after checking then dd or myself would go to the door and either invite the girl in or tell the girl as warmly as possible I am so sorry today won't work (for all she knows they are about to head over to the other girls house) would you like to come over during the week? or next shabbos? and then call her mother and follow up

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 4:07 pm

amother Lightcyan wrote:

We have a balance B"H.
We are encouraging and inclusive
however we do not socially engineer our preteen and older kids' playdates and social life. We do priorize the play date that is already happening and that may have been planned in advance.
We do prioritize middos and v ahavta lerechya kamocha
while teaching our children it is ok and healthy to have boundaries

so after checking then dd or myself would go to the door and either invite the girl in or tell the girl as warmly as possible I am so sorry today won't work would you like to come over during the week? or next shabbos? and then call her mother and follow up

I'm confused. How does another person joining the playmate deprioritize the play date? (Unless there is history there between the girls, that's another story.)

Sending someone away because someone else is already there is teaching the opposite of Vehavta lerayacha. 3 girls playing together is not that much different than 2 girls. Most games accommodate 3 players.

Setting up another time to play is poor comfort to the girl who is NOW looking to play with someone on these long shabbosim. It's like telling someone who is thirsty, sorry I don't have water for you now but I'll send over water to you another time. Nice thought, little comfort. This response seems to be more about you feeling good about sending her away rather than than being helpful to the girl.

amother

↑ Moonstone

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 4:10 pm

amother Coral wrote:

As a child is when you LEARN to be open and inclusive.

amother

↑ Purple

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 4:17 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I am so sorry your dd had such a rough time with a specific girl, but that doesnt mean your dd will never have to deal with her.
What if her bashert is first cousins or closer to that girl.

Does that girl treat everyone poor or just your dd?

How can you help your dd overcome this challenge.

We have taught her, with the guidance of her school counselor, to be polite and then politely avoid her. She knows that in large group settings they will be in the same place, and how to deal with that. But she does not need to spend her free time with her. She and we hope that when they get older, this girl will have grown out of doing what she did to dd- if not, maybe dd will be posting here about how to deal with her toxic SIL. Sometimes, people need to be avoided for everyone's benefit.

But even without all of that, sometimes when two people get together, it's allowed to be just for them, particularly if there is a large mismatch in how the two relate to the third. And sometimes that kid at the door is lovely but hyper and you allowed a playdate because dd picked someone quiet and you're exhausted or not feeling well- if it was just dd you'd allow them both to go to her house, but the friend has been dropped by you and needs to stay at least on the block. And yes, I have girls who have been the kid who was said no to at the door because there was someone over, sometimes regularly.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 5:45 pm

oohlala wrote:

Trust me they all feel terrible.

amother

↑ Tanzanite ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 5:49 pm

amother Wandflower wrote:

Trust me they all feel terrible.

How do you know? I don’t answer the door to everybody who knocks. Not do I answer my phone every time someone calls. You can have some boundaries and tell someone politely that it’s not a good time, but welcomed to come back when it is. If it’s said kindly , no reason for a child to be insulted.
Children don’t have to be open and available to play with everyone and anyone who knocks on the door at any time. It’s healthy to be able to say it’s not a good time right now.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 5:52 pm

amother Tanzanite wrote:

When the kids know you have others there and are rejecting them they are hurt. It's just how life works. That's not boundaries it's just mean.

amother

↑ Tanzanite

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 5:54 pm

amother Wandflower wrote:

When the kids know you have others there and are rejecting them they are hurt. It's just how life works. That's not boundaries it's just mean.

If the child is aware that there is a whole group playing together, and not just one friend, then I agree it’s insulting.

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 5:56 pm

amother Tanzanite wrote:

It's a child. If they know other friends are in the house, they're insulted. They aren't capable of adult level of thoughts.

amother

↑ Teal

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 7:55 pm

amother Cherry wrote:

Could not agree more.

↑ oohlala ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 8:10 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

How do you know that the girl you sent away doesn't feel bad? You think she would let you know that, or the mother would call you up to tell you?

She may be disappointed, but there have been times my daughter went o her house and she was unavailable. It happens. Most of the time these drop in are about a girl who didn’t make plans and is now bored. She’s just trying her luck. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t.

↑ oohlala

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 8:26 pm

To clarify, the culture of my block is not to run around in packs and run in and out of each others homes. Girls generally make plans before shabbos to play and hang out. Dropping in without making plans is trying ur luck and maybe the friend will be available and maybe not. I see no reason to invite in a girl who dropped by to play when my daughter made plans with someone else before shabbos. I think it’s disrespectful and disruptive to the girls who made plans. I would be very sweet about it and encourage my daughter to play with her another time, but I wouldn’t invite her in. I do not think this is a lack of midos. But it is basic mentchlachkeit to the friend who made plans.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Sun, Jun 02 2024, 8:29 pm

oohlala wrote:

I lived in such a place where it was super formal. Some kids were always told sorry I made plans already when they called on Friday. So yes those kids will try their luck anyway. I found that so many kids got left out every week. The same few popular kids made plans with each other. It’s not menchlichkeit. It’s actually snobbery and bad middos.