Would you be upset if your sibling

mommy3b2c ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 5:57 pm

amother Snowdrop wrote:

So let me ask you, what do you BM parties look like?
In my circles they're elegant sit down dinners done in nice halls. It's usually for adults and cousins the age of the BM.
No neighbors or their kids attend the dinner. It's not a glorified Bday party

I can assure you my bar mitzvahs were just as elegant as any bar mitzvah . More elegant than many. I was still thrilled to have babies and toddles there .

amother

Ruby

Wed, May 22 2024, 6:21 pm

theoneandonly wrote:

Why wouldn't you want your niece/nephew at your simcha?

Simply because I was sitting at the same table as this particular child recently at a family bar mitzva. He was allowed to move to different seats at the table. Touching each place setting that I paid a lot of money for for adults. He collected the rolls and nibbled from several portions.mom asked waiter for a maim courier him even though she new very well there was kids food available (which he wasn't even counted in head count because under age caterer expects to eat. During the pshetal he frequently yelled, lost his she so his siblings where told to fond it, and shook the machitza until it almost fell. His mother did nothing to stop any of these behaviors.

amother

Canary

Wed, May 22 2024, 6:36 pm

amother Ruby wrote:

Sounds like a lousy mom. He probably acts that way because she never taught him any better.

If I had a niece or nephew like that I would clearly ban them from the simcha. But most kids and most parents are not like that.

dankbar

Wed, May 22 2024, 6:55 pm

I think it is very disrespectful if hostess clearly states that young kids are not invited and guests don't follow and do bring, or if she is specific who she is inviting and your child is not included.

I remember when I made a bar mitzvah yes ago, I specifically said and wrote on invitatio. Who is invited, I invited from a certain age and up....and family members either begged or didn't follow, and it was a disaster. They grabbed all cookies from sweet table even before any of my guests arrived. They sprayed water and threw chocolates.

I knew who should be invited and I'm not talking about 2 yr Olds, 7-8 yr old boys. I had invited boys from 9 and up.

Also it was a small place with lots of guests, no outside lobby or hall where they can run around. So it was happening in the hall. My invited guests didn't have where to sit because the uninvited guest took a seat first.

My next bar mitzvah I invited only boys 13 & up and girls 18 and up. Plus 2-4 kids, that were my kids ages, to each child, to keep them company.

Also small hall, tons of guests. Some didn't follow.

If I would invite all grandchildren from both sides that would amount to like 80 people. Kah.

I would need another hall.

amother

↑ Lightcyan

Wed, May 22 2024, 7:22 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I can assure you my bar mitzvahs were just as elegant as any bar mitzvah . More elegant than many. I was still thrilled to have babies and toddles there .

So you are better than the rest of us.

I don’t see how your comment is helpful or contributing to the conversation.

amother

↑ Snowdrop ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 7:29 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I can assure you my bar mitzvahs were just as elegant as any bar mitzvah . More elegant than many. I was still thrilled to have babies and toddles there .

I'm not sure if you're following the conversation as to why I asked this question.
But I'm glad to hear about your BMs Wink

amother

Winterberry

Wed, May 22 2024, 7:59 pm

When my oot sil told me she’ll get me a babysitter to leave my kids where we are staying and they shouldn’t come to the Shabbos meals and party I said I’m sorry I won’t be able to attend. My kids are party of my family and they come first. They don’t deserve to be left alone for hours on end just because you decided they will ruin your simcha. If they ruin your simcha to that degree, then I won’t attend either as they need me.

ittsamother

Wed, May 22 2024, 8:15 pm

I don't think I've ever actually been to a child-free bar mitzvah, or really any child-free simcha besides maybe sheva brachos. I didn't think that was a thing frum families do. Of course I know plenty of people who left their kids at home with a babysitter because that was what made the most sense for them to do, but I've never heard it explicitly made clear by the host that kids are not invited.

amother

↑ Lightgray

Wed, May 22 2024, 8:22 pm

At a relatives wedding, one side brought all their kids and babies of all ages. The women were sitting at the meal nursing their babies, and using the tablecloths as a nursing cover. The kallah's mother was so bothered, she said that at the next wedding she's hiring a security guard to make sure that all babies and strollers aren't brought in to the actual wedding hall.

amother

↑ OP

Wed, May 22 2024, 9:14 pm

amother Lightcyan wrote:

Then DH just doesn’t come.

So toddler who is screaming and not sleeping at the sitter, what would he be doing if he was at the affair? Sleeping or overtired and either crying or a menace?

It’s your sister, be there. DH can stay home if a sitter is not an option, you don’t need to switch.

This is about the bar mitzvah boy and his parents. It is not about you.

No, if he’s with us it doesn’t happen. Obviously if said toddler would be screaming I’d go out

amother

↑ Snowdrop ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 9:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

No, if he’s with us it doesn’t happen. Obviously if said toddler would be screaming I’d go out

Maybe instead of posting all your thoughts and arguments here you have it out with your sister? I'm sure if you explain it clearly she'll be open to discuss.

amother

Cherry

Wed, May 22 2024, 9:59 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

Oy, that's terrible! Did she write not to bring children?
Such a shame to spend a beautiful Simcha being bothered by something most people take for granted as acceptable.
Why should babies be left out of the hall?

amother

↑ Snowdrop

Wed, May 22 2024, 10:08 pm

amother Cherry wrote:

Excuse me? Who in their right mind thinks it's acceptable to nurse their baby at a public dinner table? And to use tablecloths as coverups?

amother

Seashell

Wed, May 22 2024, 10:19 pm

I think it's on the host to clarify their expectations. Would they rather the parents both attend and bring their toddler or would they prefer that a parent stays home with a toddler. I don't think a host has the right to insist that the parents come and hire babysitter. Neither does The host have the right to insist that the parents read their mind.

amother

Teal

Thu, May 23 2024, 12:03 am

amother Lightgray wrote:

The mental image of all those ladies sitting at a simcha and covering with the tablecloth to nurse their babies is just fantastic. I’m especially enjoying imagining a very dramatic beaded and sequined party planned tablecloth and a magnificent orchid centerpiece with candles flickering as the infants enjoy their dinner. I have to admit this wouldn’t happen in my family but if it did there’s no way I’d hire a security guard to put a stop to it.
A wedding is a celebration of the continuity of our generations, of new Jewish homes forming their link in the chain of our people’s journey to our final destiny. Of all the beautiful touches we add to increase the joy, the beautiful flowers and foods and clothes and music, the most beautiful thing that shows we’re blessed to be able to continue Jewish life are our babies and our strollers. I say give them a place of honor.

amother

Hyssop

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:08 am

amother Lightgray wrote:

Regarding the tablecloths as nursing covers, did the women actually remove the tablecloths from the tables, or did they sit close to the table and use the tablecloth overhang to cover their nursing babies? I've done that multiple times.

ora_43 ↓

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:19 am

Me personally, I would prefer my siblings'/sib-in-laws' kids be there. It's a family event so I'd like to see my family. My kids feel the same.

Our families are small enough that it's not an overwhelming number of kids.

But it's not my party, OP, it's your sister's. And it sounds like you're pretty sure she doesn't want your toddler there (and, as others said, there can be reasonable reasons for that). So you have 3 options:

1. Leave your kid with a babysitter. OK, so he won't sleep and he'll be a menace. It's not great but it's a single evening of his life and yours. And thinking long-term here, getting him used to being at a sitter sometimes makes it more likely that next time this won't be an issue. (depending on age - is he 18 months, 2, 2 and a half? an 18mo won't really learn to adjust but a 2yo might)

2. You go, your dh stays home. It's your family, not his, so it makes sense that if one of you can go, it be you. You avoid the problem of missing the meal while you switch off. Try to reframe to see it as an opportunity to have an evening off to catch up with family.

3. You and your dh switch off. OK so he only eats the soup and you get there for dessert. You'll still both put in an appearance and get to catch up with everyone and congratulate the bar mitzva boy. You can eat a proper dinner at home.

Bringing your toddler when you know your sister doesn't want him there is not a reasonable option. It doesn't matter that some other people wouldn't mind. It only matters that she would mind.

Last edited by ora_43 on Thu, May 23 2024, 4:28 am; edited 1 time in total