Would you be upset if your sibling

amother

↑ Foxglove

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:39 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

Op, why don’t you tell us what this is all about?

She's most likely the sibling that was requested not to bring her baby or toddler and wants to still bring them. So she's seeing whether we all think it's normal or a fair ask to do so.

groovy1224

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

No, it’s not the the host’s problem. But my dh and I will not be switching off, so that by the time one comes home while soup is being served, the other one gets there to dessert… if it’s so important for the bal simcha to have her siblings there, this is something to consider

Why not just say all this in your OP instead of posting the same vague question on 2 threads? Sounds like you have a somewhat specific situation and want input on it. So what is it? How is it helpful for you to get responses when everyone is talking about different age kids coming to different simchas?

amother

↑ Lightgray ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:43 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

I don’t think I’ve ever been to a bar mitzvah in rockland. I don’t have family or friends who live there.

Perhaps our boys are just better mannered than the boys in your community. Bar Mitzvah aged boys shouldn't be running around like toddlers & being noisy at a Bar Mitzvah. They should behave like young adults & sit quietly when it's time to sit quietly, and dance when it's time to dance.

amother

↑ Acacia ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:50 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

What a rude comment! Perhaps your boys are better mannered but your imas certainly aren’t!

amother

↑ Lightgray ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:52 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

What a rude comment! Perhaps your boys are better mannered but your imas certainly aren’t!

Why is it rude? It's a response to your post where you're comparing bar mitzvah aged boys to toddlers and saying that Bar Mitzvah aged boys run around at the bar mitzvah & you've never seen bar mitzvah aged boys sitting quietly at a bar mitzvah.
Our boys are taught & expected to behave like mature young adults at friends bar mitzvahs.

amother

↑ Acacia ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:01 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

‘Perhaps our boys are better mannered’

You could Have just said ‘ it sounds like we have different expectations of our bar mitzvah boys’.

And I wasn’t comparing them to toddlers. But I was saying (and I stand by with) that they are kids and kids should behave as kids (IMO) at a party.

But also, your parties may be different. you haven’t told me what circles you’re in.

amother

↑ Lightgray ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:03 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

Our family is a mix of yeshivish, MO, some heimish. We live in a very mixed community, all types of people.
Bar Mitzvah aged boys aren't little kids. They should be expected to behave in a mature manner at a bar mitzvah & not be noisy & running around. But bar mitzvah in our circles are generally not noisy kids parties.

amother

↑ Snowdrop ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:09 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

So let me ask you, what do you BM parties look like?
In my circles they're elegant sit down dinners done in nice halls. It's usually for adults and cousins the age of the BM.
No neighbors or their kids attend the dinner. It's not a glorified Bday party

amother

Azure ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:16 pm

I just made a bar mitzvah. I also have a toddler of my own, and plenty of toddler nieces and nephews. I invited everyone's children because I wanted them there! I also trust their parents to have common sense (stay on top of them, remove them from the room if they're making noise during leining/speeches etc) and bh my trust was not misplaced and everything was great. I hired a sitter to watch my own toddler at the event so that I could hear my son daven, lein, and deliver his speech, but people could still see my little one during the times where we were mingling. Everything was great, nobody disrupted any of the quiet parts and we loved that the Littles were otherwise part and parcel of the simcha.

If I did not trust my family with common sense, or if the bar mitzvah was more upscale, I suppose I might not have invited the younger children. And if someone explicitly not invited were to come anyway, yes, I'd be upset. This is common sense. If your kids are wanted, bring them. If they're not, please don't, yes, even if that means you can't come/can only come for a little. There are many valid reasons why a host may decide no kids under X age, and that's their decision to make, not yours.

amother

Starflower

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:25 pm

If I request that my siblings don't bring their toddlers and preschoolers to my son's bar mitzvahs, that's my prerogative.
However, I do have to live with the reality that my siblings may not be able to find/afford/work out a babysitter and they and their spouse may not be able to come as much or even at all.
That's the reality.

I don't know everything that's going on in their house.
Maybe I think that they should trade off. Or at least 1 of them should come. Or they should try harder to find a babysitter.
That's not my place.

I have to choose within my reality.

Similar for Sheva Brachos. If I tell my siblings not to bring their kids, I need to be well prepared that the adults won't come
Not as a punishment.
As a reality

amother

Steelblue

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:25 pm

I’ll never understand how ppl bring kids to Simcha’s. (Unless it’s a sibling). They should be sleeping at that time. Or maybe that’s just me? My kids have a bedtime and we stick to it. If someone can’t find a babysitter they can take turns with their spouse. I see kids running around at 11:00 at night, I just don’t understand how they function.

amother

↑ Lightgray ↓

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:29 pm

amother Azure wrote:

I think people here are discussing the actual sit down event/bo bayom, & not the shabbos event in shul.

amother

↑ Waterlily

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:43 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

I’ve been to quite a few bar mitzvahs lately in various communities. The boys definitely don’t behave like toddlers but they also don’t behave like adults. It’s hard to sit through long boring speeches after a long day, possibly a school night where they already sat all day, and some of them end up in the hallway being a little silly or whispering among themselves at the table. I think that’s normal and part of why I don’t view a bar mitzvah as a super formal event.

amother

Bottlebrush

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:47 pm

I think the answer is that the balei simcha get to decide and if they don't want toddlers, you don't bring the toddler. And on their end, they have to realize that you may have to switch off or one of you leave suddenly if the babysitter doesn't work. It goes both ways.

amother

↑ Acacia

Wed, May 22 2024, 4:34 pm

amother Snowdrop wrote:

Yes in a hall. The nice ones have shmorg followed by sit down. Live music or a DJ, a motivator sometimes, one or 2 speeches (who wants to listen to lore than the Bar mitzvah boy and-or his parents anyway) Viennese table, swag, a color scheme. The whole thing. A fun and joyful even that’s Very much a birthday party. A bar mitzvah where kids are expected to act like adults sounds sad and boring to me. But that’s ok since I doubt our paths will cross

ETA: I don’t know why we’re going in circles. We live in different communities and have different communal norms. Our schools and shuls look different, we dress differently and have different careers and hobbies, it shouldn’t be surprising that our simchas are different too .

amother

↑ Azure

Wed, May 22 2024, 5:08 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

I think people here are discussing the actual sit down event/bo bayom, & not the shabbos event in shul.

I am referring to both. I had a sit down event in addition to shabbos. I invited my siblings and siblings in law to bring their children including their toddlers to the sit down meal. But if I had decided not to, I would not have appreciated being overridden.

amother

Leaf

Wed, May 22 2024, 5:12 pm

When my sister made her first bar mitzva, she spoke to all the siblings who had little kids before sending out the invites, and said she is happy to have whichever kids will be able to be quiet, sit nicely etc but she does not want little kids running around, making noise when the bar mitzva bochur speaks etc. We therefore knew that it was on us as parents to be on top of our kids, and we all chose not to bring the little ones. She asked us all how we wanted her to address the invitations, as she didn't mind inviting our kids but it might be easier for us if the invitation for the bo bayom was only addressed to the older kids. We could then explain to the kids that only kids above age x were invited because it was too late for the little ones, but everyone is invited to the kiddush on shabbos.
We did not feel that our kids were not wanted, but all thought it made sense to leave them at home with a babysitter.