Father bathing girls

amother

↑ Yolk ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 11:58 am

amother Opal wrote:

Am I the only one who feels as OP does, that it feels off?

Doesn't mean it IS, but it *feels* wrong.

I have all girls. I do showers, and at about 6yo I start teaching them to do it themselves.
Btw, at 4/5yo I start teaching them to wash themselves.

Here's how I see it. I start teaching them at a young age body safety. No one is allowed to touch their bathing suit area. So once they are able I teach them to do it themselves. I don't even touch them. (Except when needed) Not bc I'm a creap, not that I voice that it's for body safety. I just say it's a tznius thing and they are big so they can do it themselves now. It's not a big deal on either end, and they love being independent.

But I think if they know that no one is allowed to touch them. And mommy and daddy don't even touch them, then it sets them up better to understand/protect from bad touch. It also teaches modesty, so they won't go around naked, that they want to cover up...

My husband bathed them as newborns, especially my oldest bc I was so nervous to. But as we've gone on I do it. For sure once they are 1 I am doing it. Not for tznius,but bc schedule doesn't allow for it.

If that weren't the case, I wouldn't let after age 2 tho, personally.

It’s extreme to say parents can’t touch them. It’s normal to help kids up to 7 with bathing and wiping. It’s also normal for a child of any age to ask you to look at or touch their privates if they have an issue with it. I think telling them that even parents can’t touch sets them up for intimacy issues.

amother

↑ Opal

Mon, May 20 2024, 12:02 pm

amother Yolk wrote:

I specifically said I don't say that. And that I help. But once they get to the age they can do it themselves, they do it themselves.

If they have a rash, I take care of it. If they need help wiping, of course I do. If it hurts down there I investigate. I don't say or act weird about it.

I'm just saying it for sure should not be the case of a child who can/should do it themselves, and don't teach them. Bc there is a privacy issue, and it's inappropriate.

amother

↑ Yolk

Mon, May 20 2024, 12:22 pm

amother Opal wrote:

It is not a privacy issue for a parent nor is it inappropriate to help any child of any age who wants to be helped. And not helping them will cause them serious issues.

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 1:19 pm

That so many ppl think it's normal to have an 8 year old streaking around the house, to be still washing down the body of an 8 year old. I have to say that my 8 year old is far from independent and begs me to do basic things and I'm a helicopter parent and even I know better than that. And then we wonder why we have a generation of snowflakes. It's not the bad therapy. Sorry. I couldn't resist! 🙈

amother

Kiwi ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:23 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I think you are thinking WAY too deeply about this.
Nog all men are pedophiles.
There are many loving fathers who love bathing, and helping in ANY way they are needed.
I think you have to change your perspective. Really!!!

I am surprised at so many comments telling OP not to judge her brother in law bathing his 8 uear old daughter and that her brother is law is the father, not "some creep". Many men are instinctively attracted to girls- that's why for hundreds of years men married under age girls and that's why molestation of girls. Most molestation of girls is done by a male relative- father, uncle, etc. because they have access to the child and the child trusts them. Just because someone is a father does not mean that his intentions and behavior in bathing his 8 year old daughter are appropriate. This should not be encouraged because while some fathers have only good and appropriate intentions, others don't. The consequences of allowing a father with bad intentions the opportunity to inappropriately touch his 8 year old daughter under the guise of soaping her in the shower/bath are dire.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:28 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

But why should we assume there are such intentions?
This bothers me so much. Why do women here think so poorly of men?

amother

↑ Diamond

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:29 am

singleagain wrote:

As a 38 year old who had back surgery almost a year ago and needed help in the shower, you bet my dad helped to reach my back when my mom wasn't available. And don't freak. I sat on a stool in the middle of the tub, leaning forward covering my front while he opened the glass door behind me and washed and rinsed just my back for me since I couldn't twist. And I only needed help for the first week or two,... But I had absolutely no qualms asking my dad to help me bc you know he's my dad.

Flatbush?

This is very different as you were a consenting, or rather requesting, adult who asked her father for help.
I am no ascribing nefarious intentions to the father. But his daughter is an 8 year old who doesn't know better.

↑ singleagain

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:32 am

amother Diamond wrote:

I don't know what you mean when you ask Flatbush?

And I know it's different but I was responding to the quote about a hypothetical single father with a 12 year old daughter and a broken leg should hire a lady to help clean... As a 12 year old I would have been more freaked at a stranger helping me in the shower instead of my dad.

My point is there shouldn't be such strict and rigid black and white rules. So much depends on the situation and the personality of the individuals.

↑ Trademark ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:33 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

Men are not instinctively attracted to their daughters. That's why Yichud is allowed. Yes a tiny percentage of men are sick, but how many such men have you met that you write this?

amother

Oxfordblue ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:39 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

I hope you didn't experience what you write irl, because this sounds like it's coming from a place of deep mistrust. I know there are some sick men out there but I don't live in fear of all men in general, unless I have ben given a reason other then the bathing to mistrust them.

amother

↑ Kiwi ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:43 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

But why should we assume there are such intentions?
This bothers me so much. Why do women here think so poorly of men?

I am not saying we should assume that ALL men have inappropriate intentions. I am saying that SOME men do. It would be naive to assume that all frum, married men have only appropriate intentions. Not taking proper precautions due to the naive assumption that all men are appropriate would result in us allowing situations where some children will get molested (and others won't).

amother

↑ Daisy

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:46 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

This is such a crazy way of thinking about 50% of the world’s population. Do you really think like this about your husband, your brothers, your father, your grandfather? What did they do to deserve that?

You say that “while some fathers have only good and appropriate intentions, others dont”. The phrasing there is crazy. Only some fathers aren’t pedophiles? 99% of fathers aren’t pedophiles. If pedophilia was as common as you make it sound in men, I’d go lesbian.

Does your husband never bathe your daughters (assuming you have any)? Do you leave them at home together or are you concerned he won’t be able to resist molesting your daughters because he’s male? Do you ever let him change a baby girl’s diaper?

There’s a balance that has to be struck in keeping our girls safe but not treating all men as if they are probably monsters. You sound too far to the paranoid side of things.

amother

↑ Oxfordblue ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:50 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

I'm a SA survivor (not by my dad) so take it from me.
As disheartening as it sounds, the chances of parents being able to protect their kids the first time is very slim. You can live in paranoia, you can try to avoid certain people or situations, it would still be nearly impossible to protect them unless you keep them locked up in a bubble. You honestly think that not allowing men to bath their daughters, these girls are now safe from it all? Sorry honey, that's not how it works.

amother

↑ Kiwi ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:52 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

You are using extreme words- there is no "deep mistrust" or "fear of all men". This is simply my observation that OP's gut feeling of her brother in law always fully bathing his 8 year old daughter and not encouraging her to do it on her own is very valid. Burying our heads in the sand about things like this is what allows situations to happen where men with bad intentions have the opportunity to act on their bad intentions. We don't need to be suspicious of all men, but we must protect our children from being in situations that make them vulnerable to being abused/touched inappropriately. Do you really need to find out that an 8 year old child was touched inappropriately while being bathed by her father before you take the prudent step of excluding males from the bathroom while she is showering?

↑ shabbatiscoming

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:52 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

I think you have a very paranoid or scarred perspective.
I am not naive. But I will not live my life the way you seem to. Its just awful starting at the point of assuming men have bad intentions.
And this has nothing to do with being frum or not.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:53 am

I don't think the father is a molester or a creep. I just think it's weird that a father loves & looks forward to bathing his 8 year old & doesn't want her to bathe herself or that mom should bathe her. Parents should be teaching kids about body safety & private at that age, instead of encouraging & allowing father daughter bonding time when the daughter is naked & father touching her body. A normal father shouldn't want to do that or be looking forward to that time together. A father should be encouraging his daughter to bathe herself & be available if she needs help. Parents should foster independence as well as privacy at that age. A girl should know that her body is hers.

amother

Steelblue ↓

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:53 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

You’re the snowflake in this situation.