Should teenagers be charging friends?

amother

↑ Ruby

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 10:40 am

Sorry Op you are bringing more and more examples to compare ..cofee cups not wothstanding, you try illustrate why driving is not a favour as he is driving anyway.

The root of it is that you refuse to realise that 'driving anyway' and taking his friends regularly with all it entails is indeed a favour.
Once you wrap your mind around this basic concept you might be at peace.

amother

↑ Burntblack ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 10:44 am

Lets imagine I'm a teacher, and my next door neighbor's kids go to the school.
You seem to think that it's my obligation to give the girls a free ride every day because I'm going anyways.

But standard practice is that a free ride is for occasional - missed their bus or carpool, when their parent is sick, or something like that.
Even though I'm going every day, it's still not fair to expect me to give a free ride regularly because it is still a pressure to me.
Maybe I want to make some phone calls
Maybe I want to leave early or late or take off a day
Maybe I want to make a stop elsewhere
Maybe I want to earn some extra money and offer paid rides, but the neighbors daughters are taking "free seats".

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 10:56 am

amother Ruby wrote:

Maybe that's fair. But to compare an 18 year old guy who's driving his friends to someone who is literally babysitting your kids an hour a day several times a week is a bad comparison.

You think these are similar?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:00 am

amother Burntblack wrote:

I can hear this argument. But it's also important to include everything for context. Do you have an 17 or 18 year old child? An adult driving kids every day is a chore. Period. An 18 year old boy driving his buddies is not the same.

What do you think? Is a 35 year old teacher taking a bunch of neighbors little kids in her car the same as an 18 year old boy driving his friends? Same?

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:03 am

amother OP wrote:

If the boys would rotate and every other week a different boy drove then I don’t think someone should charge to once in a while take an extra turn. But the minute it’s only one person doing the work, then yes I think its similar.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:04 am

amother Peachpuff wrote:

A good rule in life is to take a step back and think about the situation in a different light if many people are saying the same thing.

True, but to be honest, I'm finding some bad comparisons here. Comparing this situation to someone expecting to walk into their friends business and expect free stuff is ridiculous.

Comparing this to expect someone to put up my sukkah for free because he did so last year is also silly and not the same.

I acknowledge that I think the idea of frequency generally makes something a business as opposed to a chessed is a great point.

I also acknowledged that specific to this boy, I gets a complete pass because of his personal situation.

I'm now following along to get a general idea how others feel about when to pay friends for favors and when is a friend a friend and it shouldn't be about business.

amother

Sand ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:06 am

amother OP wrote:

Why is an 18 year old boy not allowed to make money? 🤦‍♀️

↑ singleagain ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:11 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm now following along to get a general idea how others feel about when to pay friends for favors and when is a friend a friend and it shouldn't be about business.

My father worked in IT for many years and he was always willing to help a friend with a computer and he wouldn't charge because he said the second he would charge. They would feel like they are allowed to call him at 11:00 p.m. at night.

And I think that's part of the thing. The expectation of the taker. If they are expecting this week after week then I think he's allowed to charge.

amother

↑ Burntblack

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:13 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes I have 17 and 18 year old children.
I disagree that it's different.

Its very possible that the young man has felt himself inconvenienced by taking his friends
Maybe he wanted to have private conversations while he's driving.
Maybe he wanted to go away for Shabbos or stay in yeshiva but felt compelled to go home because people are counting on him to drive
Maybe he wants to leave earlier or later, not stop on the way, yes stop, but there are other people's opinions.
Maybe financially the car is becoming a drain, and he was thinking about taking paid passengers.
Maybe he feels taken advantage of.
Maybe he wants someone else to offer to drive so he can relax occasionally.

peace2 ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:28 am

From what I'm reading, it seems like you decided that his driving these boys is not enough of an inconvenience for him to charge but there are other services that are okay to charge for. I think you're projecting your preferences on him. For you, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But maybe for him, a whole car of boys talking and eating and hocking for however long the drive is is exhausting and difficult, and this is how he can manage it. Maybe he would rather listen to music or a podcast, or talk on the phone, but it seems like he was backed into a corner to drive these boys- would you rather him just say I can't drive anymore?
Also, you said he's from a broken family with money - you have no idea if his needs and wants are met even if his family has money. There's probably dysfunction in regards to that and he might actually really need the money for basics (and even if not, what's wrong with wanting some pocket money?)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:52 am

peace2 wrote:

It's not that it's not that big an inconvenience. Is that it's not that big an inconvenience COMBINED with these are his buddies. That's why I don't think he should be profiting here.

The other thing I'll say is that this boy WANTS to drive. Think how you (or at least many of us) were after just getting your license recently. Driving is cool and fun.

The group as a whole is saving a minimal amount of money by paying him gas and tolls. Another $10 a kid or less would actually pay for an uber. This boy most certainly was not backed into anything. They could easily been sharing an uber. In fact I would say he needs them more than they need him because if they all left and took an uber without him, he'd be stuck with the entire expense. That would be harder on him than it would be on the rest of the group to cumulatively pick up his share of the uber.

As to your last point about him being from a broken family, I already said I agree. I will pay him with a big smile. I'm just talking in general about whether it's appropriate for friends to charge in certain instances.

Golde ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:52 am

You keep saying how if one is going anyway, it isn't much of an effort to take a friend. So let me share my experience from last Friday. It made me think of this thread. Towards the end of the work day, a colleague asked me if I were driving and if she could get a ride home. I accepted and said I was leaving in five minutes. I was happy she asked, I generally enjoy having company in the car. My colleague answered me, "Great, thanks, I'll meet you by the car park in five minutes then". She had something she needed to finish in another part of the building which would take her five minutes.
When the five minutes had passed, I started packing up my things to get ready to leave. Then I remembered I had forgotten to print something important and ran back to the printer room. It took about five minutes. While I was there, I remembered something else I really needed to do before I could leave. The thought of my colleague waiting downstairs really stressed me. I don't like keeping people waiting and I had told her five minutes. I really rushed finishing my last task and didn't complete it properly. Well that was my choice, wasn't it? Of course it was, I could just have taken another ten minutes and let her wait for me. At the end of the day, I was doing her a favour. But I didn't feel comfortable doing so. So the whole favour was becoming quite stressful for me.
Now, this for me, was an extremely small inconvenience, but it made me realise how easily it can become a real inconvenience to take passengers regularly. And yes, I would drive anyway, and yes, she's my friend.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:56 am

amother Sand wrote:

No, that’s literally your argument. That an 18 year old doesn’t deserve the same rights to making money as a 35 year old
You seem to think he’s a child. He’s not

You are still in strawman territory. The issue isn't that he's 18 vs 35. The issues are.

1. He's a good friend.
2. There is very minimal inconvenience.

Putting this example side, are you saying that there is no scenario where you wouldn't approach charging friends and random strangers differently? They are all one and the same to you in every circumstance?

ShishKabob

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 11:57 am

amother Lily wrote:

These were my thoughts as well. If he's also a bachur in the yeshiva, and would be doing the drive anyway, he can do it alone and pay the high cost of gas and tolls himself, or he can have company and help from others subsidizing his already existent cost.
If he was doing this as a favor, then I can see him wanting someone to pay towards the wear and tear, but if he's driving anyway, the sentiment doesn't sit well with me either, OP.

I think I'm in agreement with this.
If he charges regular prices he may either shoot himself in the foot because they may choose to go another more convenient way and he may be left with no friends..and noone to share the expenses with.
I would think he should seriously think it over if it's worth it for him in the short term and long run.