The bathroom issue

amother

Pear

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 10:22 pm

I'm not a teacher but I think that if you have that many students ditching your class you need to get to the root of the problem; limiting bathroom privileges is not the way.

As a mother of a child with Crohn's and another child who has needed to use the bathroom very frequently (at home too!) due to anxiety, I beg all of you teachers to please not use the bathroom as a privelege or consequence. There are children who, for many reasons, need to leave the classroom for legitimate reasons. This should be a no brainer. Deal with whatever classroom management issues you are having and make the classroom a place where kids want to be.

amother

↑ Dandelion

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 10:26 pm

If a child goes to the bathroom before school starts, during Hebrew recess, during lunch, during English recess, and when school ends, that's 5 times in 7 hours. Plus there are usually small breaks between periods as well. Do they go to the bathroom so often at home?
And most teachers do allow students to go when needed even during class, the policies of using a bathroom pass or privilege is simply to make sure that they really need the bathroom and aren't abusing the system.

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 10:29 pm

if it helps at all..As a grown adult and mother working for a frum employer, I had to get someone to cover my desk when I needed the bathroom. my coworkers took their sweet time, or didn't answer the phone, etc., etc., etc. I started emailing requests instead of calling so it could be documented, and my supervisor started getting complaints that no one was at the desk because I finally could no longer hold it and started to just up and leave. needless to say, I left that job as soon as I found a new job BH. and I've never looked back. I still can't believe I had to experience that.

amother

Tulip

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 10:32 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

I have a points system where students earn points for doing their work, behaving appropriately, etc. They can use points to buy a pencil, go the bathroom, etc. They lose points for misbehaving or not doing work. They can buy prizes with points earned. Any time a student needs to go to the bathroom it will cost them points. If they really need to go, great they'll use their points. If not, they usually don't want to waste them and rethink going.

One of my children has a system where each child gets 3 bathroom passes a month. At the end of each month they can cash in unused passes.

Oh my, this sounds awful. Do you also have points in your house - like if you make a good supper you earn enough points to take a shower and if not, not? Sorry to sound mean, but in a healthy classroom environment children usually behave - and have their needs met. I've taught for many years. If your classroom is a place where the kids feel safe and good they usually don't want to leave. Also if your fair and kind children don't usually take advantage. The kids who are taking advantage usually have other issues that have to be dealt with. Please be kind to our children!

amother

↑ Lavender ↓

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 10:44 pm

amother Pear wrote:

I agree and disagree. If kids are trying to game the system and get out at every break when there is a bathroom pass system in place, then yes, the bathroom pass is not the solution.

That being said, if you have a policy of only one student out at a time except for break times, and the whole class responds effectively with it and nobody is unhappy and kids are respectful of it, then it’s an appropriate system that gives kids the structure and rules they crave. If one kid with impulse control issues who happens to be popular goes out all the time, other kids will want to follow if there are no rules governing how they can leave. But if the rules solve the problem and kids are happy, then there wasn’t a “root cause” beyond kids enjoying hanging out with their friends outside the classroom walls.

If a kid in my class leaves a lot, my first course of action is always to determine where they went, because kids can say they went to the bathroom while really checking their sports team stats that were posted at 10:00 each day in the student center. If the kid really was in the bathroom every time, then I check in with parents to make sure they know. Most times they're aware, but occasionally it’s the start of some medical or psychological issue and parents are grateful to find out. And if it’s a recurring issue that causes the child to need the bathroom without regard for who else is out, that’s usually communicated before the school year even starts. And when it’s not, arrangements are made swiftly upon finding out.

At least in my class, breaks for other things like movement and breathers are totally separate from the bathroom issue.

amother

↑ Jean ↓

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 10:44 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

I disagree—they do have the security to go as needed. They don’t even need to ask to go! For the many hours that I have them each day, I ask that they plan ahead for only 1/2 hour once a day, and even then, they know if they really need, the teacher will say yes.

And a kid wetting toilet paper and throwing it around the bathroom is okay?? That’s not only a behavioral issue; that’s a legitimate safety issue! That student very much should have to ask before going to the bathroom after this repeated behavior.

What age are you teaching that a free-for-all system works? I can’t imagine it’s the same as my students. Say I implemented it. What do I do when seven students leave the classroom at once? There aren’t even enough stalls for that many and they wouldn’t be able to go at once anyway. And many of them leaving don’t need to go to the bathroom at all. A bathroom pass policy just allows them to go to the bathroom for, well, going to the bathroom, and wheedles out those who want to play around.

And as an educator, I assume you know that some things are more engaging than others. If we are playing a review game with teams and buzzers, kids aren’t leaving the classroom. But as soon as it’s over, everyone who was holding it in will need to go and just practically speaking, they’ll need to take turns. Just like they manage then, they can manage with the predictable, built-into-our-routine, 1/2 hour. I’ve never heard a complaint about this—even with medical issues where clearly the kids leave whenever they need, rarely does someone need to in that 1/2 with the reminder to go during snack.

As an educator, when students feel the safety and security that they have the autonomy to deal with their physical needs in a timely fashion, they will thrive. All these restrictions and rigidity which are just a matter of convenience for the teacher, aren’t in a students best interest.
It’s wrong on a chinuch level to control or restrict bathroom usage. It’s not humane and not kind.
You can have 2-3 students allowed out at time. I understand not wanting 7 students out at a time.

It’s really an old fashioned mindset to use behavioral strategies to minimize bathroom usage.

Any teacher who is doing that in 2023 needs a real wake up call.

The proper thing to do is give kids the control they should should have to listen to their bodies messages. We want kids to go to the bathroom right away. Not to teach them to hold it in.

I’m a teacher and teacher’s coach for reference.

Teachers let’s do what’s right even if it’s inconvenient for us.

amother

↑ Lavender ↓

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 11:01 pm

amother Jean wrote:

As an educator, when students feel the safety and security that they have autonomy to deal their physical needs in a timely fashion, they will thrive. All these restrictions and rigidity which are just a matter of convenience for the teacher, aren’t in a students best interest.
It’s wrong on a chinuch level to control or restrict bathroom usage. It’s not humane and not kind.
You can have 2-3 students allowed out at time. I understand not wanting 7 students out at a time.

It’s really an old fashioned mindset to use behavioral strategies to minimize bathroom usage.

Any teacher who is doing that in 2023 needs a real wake up call.

The proper thing to do is give kids the control they should should have to listen to their bodies messages. We want kids to go to the bathroom right away. Not to teach them to hold it in.

I’m a teacher and teacher’s coach for reference.

Teachers let’s do what’s right even if it’s inconvenient for us.

Hold on…you were saying that students should be allowed without restriction. But now you are saying they should be restricted to 2-3 at a time? If that’s the case, presumably there is a system in place, like passes or asking the teacher, that monitors who is out at once. And then I’m not sure what the difference is between what we’re saying apart from the 1/2 hour thing (which again, I’ve literally never gotten a complaint about, nor do students who are always allowed to go leave during that time—they find that time important and feel they miss out if they are out of the room then). Also, keep in mind class size—1 student out in a 12 person class is the same as 2 out in a 24 person class.

And practically speaking, If there are 6 stalls for the 200 students in my wing, then even every fourth class having 2-3 kids out at a time doesn’t let them go to the bathroom any faster because they’ll need to wait for a stall anyway. If the school has a collective policy of one or two students out at a time, then it’s much more likely a student will successfully get a stall when needed.

Also, when too many kids are out at once, that’s not just inconvenient for the teacher. It impacts the whole class. Imagine kids are doing a math activity where they are given cards with an equation or a solution and they have to find their matching buddy. If kids are constantly leaving, the kids who are left without matches are not going to feel great about the situation. We stress building community and being able to count on one another a lot, and when that doesn’t happen in reality, it impacts the students.

amother

Buttercup

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 11:05 pm

I feel so passionately about this. Let the kids go to the bathroom!!!

Recess and lunch are so short, and there are always lines. It’s really not as simple as you think to “just go during breaks”. Seriously. Especially for kids with mild anxiety-and believe me you’d never know I had that.

Like another poster mentioned, I learned to purposely dehydrate myself (off topic but I also so believe that teachers should let drinking water always) so I wouldn’t have to go during class. I can’t even explain the amount of health issue this has caused me. Chronic UTIs, chronic headaches, painful zex because of tight muscles…

Ok, obviously this is not all the teachers fault, it also had to do with me and my personality. But please help the kids! Let them go to the bathroom! It’s a basic human need! Please!

amother

Tan

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 11:22 pm

I teach fifth grade. Here is what I do:
- Girls can only go one at a time. Unless I see it’s a genuine need and the previous girl is taking longer usual then I let the 2nd go. Unless these two are good friends. And even then I’ll let because hey some ppl just take time. But I’ll write it down and see if it becomes a pattern.
- I know that sometimes kids leave to get a breather. That’s fine with me. I honestly do that same thing if I’m sitting at a lecture etc and need to air out. As long as it’s one at a time they come back quickly usually. I’d rather that than kids getting disruptive.
- often if I’m explaining something important and a girl asks to leave I tell her that we’re just about to explain how to do the homework / the answer of rashi / what will be on an upcoming test and she may want to wait five minutes but it’s her choice. Usually they choose to stay because they know that not being preeent in the room due to bathroom or absent or whatever is not an excuse for not being on top of their school work.
- I really do think that it is on me as the teacher to make the classroom more interesting that the hallways. If I ever have a period where kids keep asking to leave I know I need to go home and really rethink how I’m going to be teaching that subject.
Hatzlacha!!!

amother

↑ Jean ↓

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 12:11 am

amother Lavender wrote:

You have a lot of rationals and excuses. At the end of the day the right thing to do is allow kids to go the bathroom when needed. It’s as simple as that. It’s a basic human right that kids have. As a teacher it behooves us to do what’s best for our students.
Read this thread and put yourself in the shoes of a student. School is stressful enough for a lot of kids, we don’t need to make this any harder for them.
If there is a will to make this work for our kids, there is a way. Good luck!

amother

Steelblue

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 12:21 am

amother Dandelion wrote:

I’m a middle school teacher and this is so sad to read. They need to earn the privilege of going to the bathroom? Please please rethink this.

In my experiences the less big a deal you make of it, the less big a deal it will be. I have one pass hanging by the board. If you need to leave- whether for the bathroom, a drink or just a breather- you just take it. It is just not an issue and my students do not abuse it. I had one last year who would stay out for a while and so I spoke to her and problem solved.

amother

Viola

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 7:44 am

When I taught 5th grade I had a finger system. Each amount of fingers up meant a different thing. I had one number for bathroom, and another for an emergency. We had a bathroom pass to insure that there wouldn't be more than one girl out at a time. This way I allowed girls out without it disturbing the class. I didn't have anyone abuse this system. The only time I wouldn't allow anyone to leave was in middle of a test.
Bathroom use is not a privilege. (Neither is water). I would never dream of not allowing that in my classroom.

amother

↑ Lavender ↓

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 8:22 am

amother Jean wrote:

You have not addressed that if you are putting a limit on students out at a time, it’s not different than my pass system.

You also have not addressed what to do when seven kids want to go out at once.

I’m seriously doubting that you spend significant time in a classroom with kids within a 2-3 year range of the ones I do, or are trained to respond to that age. Your answers are simply not reflective of the reality of my students.

You might be a teaching coach…for high school. Or middle school. But not my kids.

amother

↑ Jean ↓

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 8:51 am

amother Lavender wrote:

As an educator if you have seven students leaving class for the bathroom you have to get to the root of the issue as to why they aren’t intrinsically motivated to stay in class. That’s a more global issue. There is no need for arbitrary limits other then using common sense that if an excessive amount of students are leaving I would use my seichel as to navigate why and to maybe incorporate a full class bathroom break at transitional times to make it easier within the rest of the day. I’m a teacher for younger grades for reference. You need to ditch the excuses and make this work in the easiest way possible for our kids. This is so important please take the time to address this within your classroom. Good luck!!

↑ Giraffe

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 9:15 am

I'll just say this thread reminded me of the time that I was late for class because I had stomach problems and was in the bathroom longer than usual.

So I got a late. One more late and I would have been in detention. The principal was also out to get me and would have liked to see me in detention. Piece of garbage. This school was out to cause me pain. (They decided to destroy my life because I did not socialize much and was a listener instead and the damage lasted until well after my marriage but that is another story entirely)

The administration said "welcome to [school]" as a joke and I self mutilated my face right in front of them and the damage lasted on my face for days to the point other students were asking "what happened to my face.

I was a top student with amazing grades, never caused any problems ever. No mercy.

I never got another late again.

Don't tell me to go to therapy. I despise therapy. I was forced into therapy for not being social and I am not going to therapy to undo the damage that this industry did to me in the first place.

amother

↑ Mimosa

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 9:40 am

amother Mimosa wrote:

My recently turned 5 year old had an accident this wk because morah doesn't let the bathroom during her time. But he didnt need to go before. Anyway he was so embarrassed which hurts his socialization even more. Its very difficult for him to get over it. And yes he really needed to go. Anyway I told him whenever he needs to just go. She can talk to me about it. As if he was missing the most valuable information. He's 5! Stop with this rule.

ETA This is what they'll remember from your class. That you were the teacher who didn't let kids go to the bathroom.