Spoiled Americans | Imamother

amother

↑ Begonia ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:32 am

giftedmom wrote:

Anyway the reason people are getting defensive is because the word spoiled has very negative connotations. It basically means entitled, self-centered, etc.
if someone came on here and said that many people in the US had nicer, bigger houses, and that there is a ton of kosher high-end food available etc. no one would argue with that.

The person who used spoiled is OP, who lives in the US.

Everyone else was just pointing out the differences in lifestyle.

amother

Rose ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:36 am

[quote="amother Moonstone"]Not all Americans go on vacations the way that "all" Europeans go on vacations.
That's my point.
We don't go on vacations. We can't afford to all take off at the same time (I have off Yom Tov, nothing else).
So summer the kids go to camp and then we muddle through.
Our European counterparts ALL go on a 2-3 week vacation every year.

Ummm...Our summer holiday vacations cost less than sending 1 child to camp! And barely any people send to camp here. Day camp for one month, sure but that doesn't cost much. I wouldn't really use the term "spoiled" but standards are definitely less than the US.

amother

↑ Wheat

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:45 am

Capitalism vs Socialism. That's what it boils down to.

Socialism is about everyone being equal, everyone being the same. So Europeans have free healthcare and tuition but they mostly live simpler.

In capitalism, there are winners and losers. So in the US, you have these insanely rich people who could afford to buy Europe twice, but you also have a lot of poor people who struggle to afford healthcare and pay tuition.

Fortunately, in the frum community, we have so many generous people, who's hearts are as big as their wallets, and it sort of evens out somewhat in our communities. As one of the "working poor" I have to say that I am extremely grateful to them.

amother

Alyssum ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:45 am

As an American I'd say there is a large range in lifestyle even in the frum American communities. In my simple chassidish community in NY people have large families in small houses, parents work long hours, almost no maternity leave, no fancy vacations or pesach hotels etc. In short life is hectic & people work hard.

I see my European relatives as " spoiled" for having a month off in the summer, tons of government benefits for the kids, long maternity leave & much shorter summer school break. So yes we have some nice things but we work so so hard. Some people have huge houses etc but it's the exception not the rule.

amother

↑ Begonia ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:47 am

amother Alyssum wrote:

]

Huge is relative though. What you call small might be called large elsewhere.

I people here talking about a house with x square foot and they say it's really small, whereas it would be considered big here in that same size.

amother

↑ Bluebonnet ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 9:49 am

amother Alyssum wrote:

Hm, where can I get some?

Those days are long over!

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:02 am

amother Chocolate wrote:

I’m Israeli living in America.
You cannot compare the two countries. I grew up in a two br apartment with one bathroom that the door wouldn’t close all the way. I most definitely became a lot more spoiled in my 5 br 3 full bathrooms house. My kitchen still has only one sink but overall I have a lot more than any standard Israeli apartment. I dont think it’s something to be ashamed of. Yes I like and need my comfort. Why is that an issue?

America back in the day was called the golden medina for a reason. Even with the medical bills and tuition, the standard in the frum community in the tristate is very high. Yes Americans are a lot more spoiled than Israelis in many ways. It’s nothing bad and between u and me, most Israelies are jealous.

Wow, you are making a lot of stereoryping here.
Not all apartments in israel are that small.
Not everyone lives that way.
And I know many people in isrsrl libing in homes with 4-6 bedrooms and from 2 - 3 bathrooms. Its much more common than you think.
And most definitely not true is that MOST israelis are jealous. Thats just silly.

amother

↑ Bluebonnet

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:07 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Listen, I have relatives all over Israel, not just Jerusalem area where most people are familiar with.

Even those with 2 floors that are considered luxurious are small compared to American luxury apartments. Of course you know people with bigger apartments and many bathrooms but why is it so hard for you to admit that life in Israel is less luxurious?

A very expensive dress in Israel is considered say 2000NIS? In the USA a woman seeking to spend has options of $2000 too. They don't even sell some things in Israel because people don't need or want them. It's simply a different culture.

amother

↑ Alyssum ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:17 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

I think the gap has narrowed significantly over the years. Yes there are people living in 4,000 Sq ft houses in NJ, but what percentage of the US population? I suspect very small.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:21 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

My American sister in law only eats chicken cutlets, no chicken on the bone.

Who's ever heard of such a thing outside of the tri state?

There was even a thread about this not long ago and many people said the same.

I worked with British girls and they said they only eat chicken (besides for ground) on Shabbos.

Americans are wonderful but they are more spoiled and used to abundance bh.

I know of some British girls who got married with one wig (gasp), no flowers, no benchers, videographers, sheva brochos only in people's houses and all those extras which I think in Tri state is considered the norm.

I grew up in the tei stare area and we never had chicken cutlets. Its a family thing, not a geographical thing.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:40 am

And I had both chicken and meat on a weekday when spending the summer with my European relatives.

I know some American girls who got married very simply too. Oh, there was no videographer at my wedding, and all Sheva Brachos were in peoples' homes. I did have some flowers, but the ones on the table were faux.

See, all these things are pointing at some people. Yes, some Americans are rich, and live a high lifestyle. Some aren't and some don't. Some Europeans live quite well too. Or have some things that Americans don't.

As for Israel, my daughter spent a Shabbos in Israel at my brother, with another American relative of ours. My brother's kids said, you probably live in a way bigger, nicer house than we do. It does happen to be that our Lakewood home is larger than their Beitar apartment (which is not small at all, they have 4 bedrooms, a huge gorgeous mirpeset, living room, kitchen, etc....) though nicer is relative. But the relative who was with DD comes from a struggling family, and no, their house is not larger nor nicer. DD was cringing.

Rappel ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:41 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

It's not like the properties are the same. On any objective scale, that's obvious.

We're a bus ride away from Har Habayit, in the land of Hashem. It's prime real estate, and the price per meter reflects that.

amother

Marigold ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:45 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

Dh and I are English and dh only eats cutlets, he's put off chicken on the bone from yeshiva in Israel! I have a bit of a fussy eater on my hands, I'm not sure why that's spoilt. It's more of a sensory thing.
I don't think you can generalise a whole country like that. I have most of the above and I live in England 🤷🏼‍♀️ no we don't have a pool. We only have a hallway closet, otherwise wardrobes with ample space and 1 mirrored door. I never understood the need for walk in closets.. We have a big walk in en suite bH 🤣 but really you can't go by a whole country.

Last edited by amother on Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 10:50 am

[quote="amother Rose"]

amother Moonstone wrote:

Not all Americans go on vacations the way that "all" Europeans go on vacations.
That's my point.
We don't go on vacations. We can't afford to all take off at the same time (I have off Yom Tov, nothing else).
So summer the kids go to camp and then we muddle through.
Our European counterparts ALL go on a 2-3 week vacation every year.

Ummm...Our summer holiday vacations cost less than sending 1 child to camp! And barely any people send to camp here. Day camp for one month, sure but that doesn't cost much. I wouldn't really use the term "spoiled" but standards are definitely less than the US.

The trips my relatives take to Spain, France, Italy, and Switzerland....you are not going to convince me those are cheaper than my child's summer camp.

amother

↑ Rose ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 11:06 am

Chayalle wrote:

The trips my relatives take to Spain, France, Italy, and Switzerland....you are not going to convince me those are cheaper than my child's summer camp.

We go to france and spend about 2.500 in total for our holidays... houses there aren't very expensive. I don't know anyone going to Italy or spain (pritzus...), switserland is more expensive and so many people go to the countryside which is very cheap (and nice ;-)

rainbow dash ↓

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 11:09 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Not all Americans go on vacations the way that "all" Europeans go on vacations.
That's my point.
We don't go on vacations. We can't afford to all take off at the same time (I have off Yom Tov, nothing else).
So summer the kids go to camp and then we muddle through.
Our European counterparts ALL go on a 2-3 week vacation every year.

I have 2 hours a week of cleaning help. My South African or South American counterpart has 2 full-time workers.

You have to compare like with like.
Yes, there are Americans going on luxurious vacations. Europeans also.
But the average European has luxuries (like child payments, vacations, etc) that the average American thinks are luxuries.

I lived in Australia and Israel, and now I'm in Belgium. Not everyone goes on vacation, but a lot do. We have 2 weeks in the winter and 2 months in the summer. We send the kids to the day camp in July, which bh only 260 eu.eu per kid. Its,not sleep away. and then August, we hang out at home. Yes,we have in the past gone on vacation, but now,we can't afford it.

Bh I have 2 ovens, 2 dishwashers and a microwave. I don't think I'm spoiled. We are renting for the past 20 years.

Health insurance here is affordable bh not like in the US.

We eat chicken in the weekday cause we buy it cheaper when it's frozen, I also eat mince and,goulash duringthe week. I don't have to buy fish anymore cause,my dh job is,in fish so,u have salmon, smoked salmon and white fish stocked in my freezer.

Now with all the inflation I'm watching what I'm buying.

And most people here live in apartments with no garden. Bh for the parks

Last edited by rainbow dash on Mon, Jun 19 2023, 11:27 am; edited 2 times in total