Which of the Fishbein cookbooks is the most useful?

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 11:40 am

cookielady wrote:

Motek, if you want to stick to whats traditional to you ...

I didn't say that.

Take #2

There are many cookbooks out there. I have a bunch. I'm not opposed to trying a new recipe.

I think her mission statement is incompatible with what is taught in frum circles whether Bais Yaakov or Chasidish.

There's cognitive dissonance when I read the interview with her and read the quotes from Chazal etc. in this thread:

http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....asure

If you're Lubavitch there are quotes in that linked thread that are light years away from what s.f.'s goal is. If you're a Bais Yaakov grad. and read and learn about being mistapek b'muat and how the Chofetz Chaim lived, it's just plain incompatible. If you're JPF (just plain frum), the mishna in Avos says what the way of Torah is. Look it up. Hint: it's not about Mexican lasagna Wink

↑ Raisin ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 11:44 am

Motek wrote:

cookielady wrote:

Motek, if you want to stick to whats traditional to you ...

I've never met her, but I would think susie fishbein would be better described as m.o.

Clarissa ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 11:48 am

I shouldn't get involved in this at all because I'm clueless about all of it, but one quote in Motek's comments in the other thread caught my eye:

"the answer is that when we are "spiritually immature", we need to restrict our intake of even the permissible because we won't handle it properly, ensuring that it is used solely in the service of G-d."

All I can say is, I am in big trouble here. Very spiritually immature (me) and totally in love with chocolate mousse don't seem to mesh according to that thread. Can't I make believe that my eating the mousse is the same as visiting the Alps? What if I mold the mousse into a miniature mountain range, one that almost seems Alp-like?

My other comment: Mexican lasagna? Eh. That's one I can live without, and I cook Mexican food a lot.

Time for a small bowl of Alps.

(not to brag, but can I say that this batch of chocolate mousse is one of the best I've ever made?)

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:18 pm

Raisin wrote:

I've never met her, but I would think susie fishbein would be better described as m.o.

yes

Another thing that bothers me is that presentation and appearance are considered All Important. Far more than taste and health.

I understand that when it comes to taste, it's subjective and people don't have to agree on what tastes good. That being said, I went to a demo of hers and she made something which she gave us to taste. It was utterly bland, needed salt. Okay, so that's my opinion. But during the preparation of it, Suzie emphasised how PRETTY it is.

I suppose there are women out there to whom pretty food is important.

speaking for myself, TASTE is the number one item of importance to me in a recipe
it seems a bit ridiculous saying this, but apparently, TASTE is not top of the list for everyone, APPEARANCE is

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:19 pm

p.s. I have thought of the possible lashon hara aspects of this discussion

I did not ask a rav so this is my opinion.

I think that if she is promoting herself and I read an interview with her in a magazine that is meant for the public to read, that I can respond, in public, to what was said, like in a letter to the editor or here on the forum.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:26 pm

If it's only for MO to like trying new food, why are exotic and "new cooking" restaurants opening with Litvish or Chabad supervision? They could open only with the JPF one? Someone JPF and certainly someone MO doesn't care at all about having a charedi supervision... and the people I see in these restaurants range from totally secular wanting to try if it's true some kosher restaurants are decent, to very ultra Orthodox. And according to what I hear, some are Americans.

↑ Clarissa ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:30 pm

I agree that there is a lot of emphasis on appearance of food these days. I have this really funny book called Gallery of Regrettable Food, and it's all about how disgusting food used to look in cookbooks and cooking magazines back in the 50's and 60's. There has been a movement to make food prettier, because some people believe that food that is pleasing to the eye will be responded to in a way that might make it more pleasing to be palate. Part of that is the healthy food movement that stresses fresh fruits and vegetables. All of the bright colors add to what "sells" the dish to the eater. I don't know if this means that people care less about taste. I think it's just appreciated as part of the big picture. I watch this tv food competition and, when chefs are first presented with the food, they stick their nose right into the plates and sniff deeply before they eat, because we smell before we eat. Maybe the visual appeal falls into a lesser, but similar, category.

That said, I don't care much about how my food looks. I add garnish only because it might add to the taste, and if it makes it prettier, that's a bonus. Plenty of food that isn't pretty -- a bowl of stew or chili, my mother's Chicken Paprikash, a serving of chocolate bread pudding, can be amazing tasting, and that's what matters to me. If the food is well-prepared and plentiful, it works for me.

My wedding caterer had been into art or design before getting into catering, and she did make a point of presentation. I think it does matter at a wedding or party. The food becomes like the flowers or dresses, part of the physical beauty of the occasion.

↑ Clarissa ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:34 pm

One more thing -- there are wonderful traditions of Jewish food in almost all countries and cultures. I love that we as Americans are exploring these fantastic foods. I also love that we are incorporating other cultures into our cuisine. It's what Jews have done throughout history. We're wanderers, we adapt local foods and recipes to our kosher food. It's not as if potato kugel has such a part of our distant past. Like many of the foods we love (borsht, kreplach, many of our chicken dishes) we borrowed the ideas from the lands we inhabited. I have a relative by marriage from India, and their food is amazing. Even tastier than I imagine Mexican lasagna to be!

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:48 pm

Clarissa wrote:

I also love that we are incorporating other cultures into our cuisine. It's what Jews have done throughout history. We're wanderers, we adapt local foods and recipes to our kosher food. It's not as if potato kugel has such a part of our distant past. Like many of the foods we love (borsht, kreplach, many of our chicken dishes) we borrowed the ideas from the lands we inhabited. I have a relative by marriage from India, and their food is amazing. Even tastier than I imagine Mexican lasagna to be!

I wonder about this.

It says that the Jews in Egypt did not change their clothes, their names and their language. Another version says they did not change the foods. I wonder what that means.

I read an interview with a venerable mashgiach who said something I'm sure most people here will roll their eyes at (which responds to your point ruchel). He says, "Today you can have glatt kosher Chinese" and glatt kosher Italian food. Rashi says in Parshas Zos Ha'Bracha that the Jews serve only one G-d, "v'ochlin maachal echad" - and they eat the same food. Jews eat kugel ... Chinese food is not mentioned.

"For example, pizza is a non jewish food. Does it say in the Mishna Brura that it is forbidden to eat pizza? No. But it is connected to the non jewish world.

"We find many mitzvos in our Torah that are connected to what a Jew eats. Each Yom Tov has its own special food - matzos on Pesach, cheesecake and dairy products on Shavuos, we even keep a special diet during the 9 Days. During Tishrei and especially on Rosh Hashana, there's honey, on Chanuka we have latkes and on Purim we eat hamantaschen. We have many minhagim that are based on certain kinds of food. If we eat non-Jewish food, it has a different kind of effect.

"We shouldn't veer from our parents' ways even with little things. For example, if our parents ate farfel during the Shabbos seuda and we don't, we are making subtle changes."

end quote

↑ Ruchel

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:52 pm

So, to Chinese or Indian or Ladino Jews, eating bagels would be non jewish ?

While bagels may be the epitome of Jewish for many of us, we should not be "racist" and think it's the case for everyone... by the way, no bagel and chulent in Egypt... one day or another, different dishes appeared in the Jewish recipes. My grandfather has a family tradition that such and such dish was adopted in such and such country. Why was it right then?

↑ Clarissa ↓

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 12:58 pm

I'm no food historian or Torah expert, but what were our foods way back when? Other than roast meat, olives, bread, what foods are mentioned?

Also, with all of the available spices these days (which were more valuable than gold several hundred years ago), we're naturally going to be tempted to use them. Are we expected to avoid using them, because they weren't available to our ancestors?

I'll admit I've loved incorporating certain traditions into my life, like the cheesecake/dairy theme of Shavuot, which is my cup of tea, or should I say cream. I love the traditional foods made by my mother and, before her, my paternal grandmother, but those were as Hungarian as Jewish, I suspect. I'm trying to say that we may not have changed our traditions and food in Egypt, but in the many years since, we have absorbed some of society-at-large into our cuisine.

I can't stand pizza, so I'd happily discard it for the cause. I let my nine-year-old make it for Shabbos this week (and his was very good), but it's not my idea of tasty food.

I'm an old person by Imamother standards, and the simcha foods of my youth were your typical 60's (now retro) type of food. Chinese food (very Americanized), Italian food, etc.

I've gone way off-topic, I know. I also know that many people would say that my dairy kitchen and menus don't fulfill the requirements for a Jewish kitchen, so being very traditional in the sense you mean might be difficult for me.

↑ Clarissa

Sun, Jun 29 2008, 2:12 pm

Raisin wrote:

And I found

http://www.lileks.com/institute/

if you want to see bits the regrettable food book clarissa mentioned. Really really funny. Even funnier then Clarissa.

Thank you?

The book really is a hoot. I bought it for someone I know who has cancer. I give her funny books to cheer her up during the drudgery of her chemo days. We call them her Chemo Books.

Being the age I am, I can actually remember some of this hideous foods, or foods like them, being featured in women's magazines. Maybe twenty or thirty years from now my kids will be laughing about food that is popular these days. My kid already makes fun of my food.