For all those jealous of the poor—peaceful discussion please

amother

↑ Pearl ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 7:57 pm

Trademark wrote:

You misunderstood my point.

I wasn't talking to poor people.

I was talking to the posters who have the mentality of how dare she spend on cleaning help or a coffee if she doesn't have extra money?

If she's doing those things and taking money from the govt or getting big tuition breaks, then I have a problem with it. If not, feel free.

amother

↑ Molasses ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:00 pm

amother Rainbow wrote:

I can prove to you that it’s not the same: go a year without food and you will not be alive. Go a year without cleaning and you will survive.

Go for a year without electricity or phone service and you will still be alive. So?

Go for a few years without dental care and you may lose your teeth .... but you will still be alive.

Is this seriously the level we are arguing?

↑ mikayla18

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:02 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

If she's doing those things and taking money from the govt or getting big tuition breaks, then I have a problem with it. If not, feel free.

You think the only way to take gov services is if you don't have a cleaning lady ever and never get coffee? You don't think that's extreme? I don't think you should be buying expensive shoes but people should live in messy houses with absolutely nothing to look forward to just to be on a gov program? Does that mean no $20 flowers for Shabbos? Never having dinner out, even for pizza randomely? Im not saying people aren't taking advantage but that'd a pretty hard line...

Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:03 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

The difference is that you can't DIY electricity or phone service.... Or dental care.

You can do your own cleaning. It may not be easy, if may affect physical or emotional health and it definitely might be a priority for some to spend money on. But it's a different category by virtue of being able to technically accomplish it without it costing money.

amother

↑ Molasses ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:05 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

No that is not correct. Not everyone can do their own cleaning. That was the point I was trying to make.

amother

↑ Rainbow ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:05 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

No that is not correct. Not everyone can do their own cleaning. That was the point I was trying to make.

Most people probably can to some extent. It would be super duper difficult but for example during covid when the cleaning women had to stay home… how did you survive?
It wasn’t easy but we survived.

amother

↑ Molasses ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:08 pm

amother Rainbow wrote:

I'm not following. You were able to do it so everybody can????

During covid I was fine. My kids are now older and everyone chipped in (and I even managed to clean with having covid and eith working). My emergency cleaning help happened when I was pregnant and working or four little kids under four and working. Everyones limits are different.

notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:10 pm

There is no one answer. My cheshbon is that I would need to make $25,000 more a year to even out the amount we make to qualify for benefits. That $25,000 would just cover health care and food. So someone who makes $15,000 more than me is probably just as tight as I am but I have a very hard time believing someone who makes $50,000 more is the same boat.
We have had years on and years off, neither way is great because the cost of living is such that it’s really difficult to live off of $35,000 a year.
Yes there has been more than enough food but when you find yourself thinking how many extra hours you need to work to pay the electricity bill or how to work without getting paid so you can get a benefit that you need without making income (such as tuition or I teach a class once a month at a gym to get free gym membership, etc) it can be very difficult.

amother

↑ Ivory ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:15 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

If she's doing those things and taking money from the govt or getting big tuition breaks, then I have a problem with it. If not, feel free.

Wow you must live a very bitter and difficult life. To not be able to fargin people an occasional coffee or a bit of cleaning help because they're getting some assistance is very sad.

amother

↑ Orange ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:16 pm

amother Rainbow wrote:

And some people didn’t survive. Some even committed suicide during that time. Are you seriously being tone deaf?

amother

↑ Pearl ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:17 pm

mikayla18 wrote:

I'm sorry - but is this post meant to be sarcastic? $20 flowers for Shabbos? Please don't me that there is anyone here who thinks that flowers for Shabbos should be purchased by people who are on govt services. And you do not need to have dinner out. That is a luxury except perhaps when you are in the midst of turning your kitchen over for Pesach. You do not have to purchase a coffee. Make your own at home if you drink coffee at all.

You have filled your post with luxuries. I have never had a cleaning lady except someone to clean the bathroom after I bought a house 20+ years ago. I have never bought a coffee. I almost never go out to eat. I havent purchased flowers in well over a dozen years. I don't think I am deprived at all.

amother

↑ NeonPurple

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:18 pm

amother Orange wrote:

And some people didn’t survive. Some even committed suicide during that time. Are you seriously being tone deaf?

They committed suicide because they didn't have cleaning help?

amother

↑ Pearl ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:21 pm

amother Ivory wrote:

Wow you must live a very bitter and difficult life. To not be able to fargin people an occasional coffee or a bit of cleaning help because they're getting some assistance is very sad.

ROFL. I am not bitter and do not have a difficult life (financial wise that is, thank Gd - but I'm sure that part of it is because of my frugal nature.)

Nobody needs to get a coffee!!!
Only in special circumstances does someone need cleaning help. This isnt the olden days where there were no appliances. People think we are in the old country where there were no appliances and cleaning people basically worked for room and board. Cleaning help is expensive.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:25 pm

amother Orange wrote:

And some people didn’t survive. Some even committed suicide during that time. Are you seriously being tone deaf?

I don't remember anyone commiting suicide from not having cleaning help.

amother

↑ Orange ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:37 pm

amother NeonPurple wrote:

They committed suicide because they didn't have cleaning help?

This is the response to the tone deaf attitude of everyone can survive living isolated without any help, see it’s proof we don’t need cleaning help. It’s a serious lack of awareness and reality. Some of you just argue as if you are talking about puppets in a glass case and not actual humans.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:44 pm

mikayla18 wrote:

Yes someone who has money for $20 to throw our on flowers shouldn’t be asking for tsedakah in my opinion. That is a undisputed (I think) luxury. The last time I remember buying flowers was for my wedding.

amother

↑ Ivory ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:49 pm

amother Orange wrote:

How would you know what broke them?

She can't even know who was suicidal.

I was. I only told my husband, no one else. My own immediate family had no idea. It wasn't the lack of cleaning help that broke me (I don't use cleaning help) but it was something that others probably see as just as shallow.

People need to survive. And if what they need is cleaning help, then instead of judging them for paying with money they don't have, help them somehow get it funded. It sure is cheaper than spending on all the resources needed to put a broken family back together.

↑ Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:57 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

But it's not something that needs to be outsourced. In a 2 adult home, unless both are incapacitated, on some level cleaning can be done without outside help. It might not be easy, it might not be good, but it can happen if it's an absolute must.

amother

↑ Molasses

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 9:00 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Why do you assume everyone lives in a 2 adult home????

And specifically in my case, at that time, my husband did not help me at all and I was unable to do it myself.

Is that seriously so so hard to understand?