What went wrong in Texas?

↑ gold21 ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:01 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Literally from the time the gunman entered the building until the time he was killed was one entire hour.

You have the luxury of reading lots of articles, you have never been in the military or the police force, you have never received any training, and you know exactly every move that happened in the school building?

The other kids in the school building were essentially hostages to the drama unfolding, even while they weren't in the classroom.

I watched this episode years ago, and it's not for the fainthearted. It's the first thing I thought of when I heard the new.

It shows an unedited cut of what police officers might go through in an "active shooter" situation. It also shows that police are real people, not robots. People freeze. Information is confused. In real life as in this episode, the cops didn't even know where the gunman was or where the shots were coming from at first. You are responsible to obey orders, so your tactical team first needs to come up with a plan. And in the end, these police officers put their own bodies in the way to help other children.

I'm not saying the police did everything correctly. I think that - unfortunately - all our police units need to undergo extensive, intense school shooter trainings. But that it's easy to place blame when we ourselves aren't there. If parents HAD thrown themselves, unarmed, into the building. If they had unlocked the classroom and the gunman would have mowed them down with his seven packs of 30 round magazines, and then traveled to other classrooms, the police would have been lambasted for not controlling the environment. Either way, they lose.

TRIGGER WARNING FOR EPISODE BELOW, I'm not embedding the YouTube video here for a reason.
https://youtu.be/LtxiokrYpxw

I'm reading statements made by police personell and officials. So.... Not sure what you're getting at.

Did you see the latest statement by Steve McGraw where he expresses regret for the way things were handled?

Cops freeze when they're afraid? OK. Then let armed parents in.

Your take is a little disorganized. Do cops have it under control or not?

Last edited by gold21 on Fri, May 27 2022, 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:05 pm

gold21 wrote:

Top story on Daily Mail, statement given by Director of Public Safety Steve McGraw

This one?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne......html

This one says that the gunman barricaded himself in the classroom. That is first. It also says, from Steve McGraw, that the police "contained" him in the classroom, which could mean a lot of things. Most importantly - also that they couldn't get in because they didn't have the key.

So how could they have barricaded the gunman into the classroom to force his hand into killing everyone inside, when they didn't have a key?

I think you're misreading this.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:06 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

There is a PATTERN here of Police doing NOTHING in these school shootings resulting in
a high casualty count.

This happened in Parkland, Pulse Nightclub and I think other school shootings.

Also there is a PATTERN that these shooters were KNOWN to be threats and yet they
were not prevented from buying guns.

I believe Democrat Party DELIBERATELY want school shooting to DISARM the People.

Why else would Democrats make public schools GUN FREE ZONES - while Democrats have
Armed Security for THEMSELVES - and for THEIR children's PRIVATE SCHOOLS?

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:08 pm

gold21 wrote:

As I wrote below, you are erroneously saying that the police locked the gunman in the fourth grade classroom on purpose. That's not what Steve McGraw said.

And as much as he's apologizing for how he handled things, he would also be apologizing for not securing an environment and letting people rush into the school. Either way, he's apologizing.

All your articles say that the parents weren't armed - they asked the cops to give them, the parents, their vests and guns. Um, no. That's not how the police work. So the "armed parents" didn't exist.

Yes, these police were untrained, and the SWAT team, the team that really could handle these scenarios and have adequate protection, took too long to arrive. That's the real issue.

↑ number ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:11 pm

Quote:

McCraw revealed that the gunman entered the school through a back door he found propped open at 11:33 a.m. and began shooting in classrooms 111 and 112. At least 100 shots were fired in the harrowing attack, he said.

Just two minutes later, at least three police officers entered the same door the gunman did. By 12:03, there were as many as 19 officers in the hallway.

However, it wasn't until 12:50 p.m. that the classroom the gunman was shooting in was breached using keys from a janitor. That is when the gunman was fatally shot.

Among the more stark revelations at the news conference:

A school resource officer was not already stationed at the school. When he arrived at the scene, he inadvertently passed the shooter, who was crouched down next to a car.

The back door of the school was propped open by a teacher. This is how the gunman made entry.
One student in room 112 called 911 at 12:03 p.m. She called back several times. At 12:16, she said there were "eight to nine students alive," McCraw said.

At least two children called 911 pleading for help. They survived the shooting, McCraw said.
McCraw said the on-scene commander believed "this was a barricaded subject situation" and did not think there were “more children at risk.”

Fifty-eight magazines were recovered. Three were on the shooter's body, two were found in classroom 112 and six in classroom 111. Five others were found on the ground, and one was in the rifle the gunman wielded.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u.....30845

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:11 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

What is your point?

I am still safer living in a country where people have a RIGHT to own guns.

(and I am seriously considering getting a gun)

If you say so. I don't feel safe at all. I think that gun control laws have disintegrated to the point where I don't feel the least bit safe. I think "safety", as you put it, is exactly the point. How many school shootings need to happen before we realize that none of us in this gun-owning country are safe?

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:11 pm

pause wrote:

Because I don't know you. I don't know if you will suddenly have voices in your head telling you to go shoot up a bunch of people in a grocery store. I also don't know how well trained you are to use your gun for the protection you are assuming it provides you. An untrained armed person is dangerous to my life. I also don't know how well you are watching your gun and making sure that no one else besides for you has access to it. Were you to buy a gun with all these factors still unknown, my life would be in danger.

1] There is absolutely no evidence that training would prevent gun violence. We can safely assume that if the murderer in Texas were better trained, he would have simply killed more kids.

2] There are already laws in place making a negligent gun owner responsible if her guns were used in a crime.

Your fears are not based on reality. You are not less safe because the government isn't forcing us to be trained. You are not in danger of the cops looking the other way when gun owners are negligent.

Last edited by sushilover on Fri, May 27 2022, 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ exaustedmom ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:15 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

So you are OK with only criminals owning guns? We can certainly do better with implementing gun laws, raising to age to 21 as in Florida.

↑ gold21 ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:16 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

That is not the top story on Daily Mail..... I can link it if you like.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:17 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Do you know that 100 Million people were MURDERED by their Government
after they agreed to give up their guns????

WHY on earth do you think disarming and letting only Government own guns is safe???

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:18 pm

exaustedmom wrote:

So you are OK with only criminals owning guns? We can certainly do better with implementing gun laws, raising to age to 21 as in Florida.

Is that my two choices?

Either I let no guns in the country and all the criminals have guns, or I have to let everyone over 21 have a gun?

If this is your argument, you don't know the details in the campaign for gun control measures. You're just repeated NRA talking points.

↑ sky ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:18 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Are you against gun control?

I believe there should be control.
But it should also be allowed for everyday ppl.
Personally I don’t know enough about guns to know what.

But I do know ppl that don’t leave their house Friday night without someone in the group carrying. It means they are afraid of other ppl - some with guns. I don’t believe those ppl will give up their guns if it becomes illegal.

But more then criminals. I don’t think it would be good for us as a country to only have the government with guns

↑ pause ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 2:18 pm

sushilover wrote:

It goes the other way. Assuming that potential gun owners would need to pass rigorous screening and training, the murderer in Texas wouldn't have owned a gun in the first place.