What went wrong in Texas?

↑ pause ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:23 am

sushilover wrote:

In what way am I infringing on your right to stay alive when I buy a gun, whether it's for sport or protection?

Because I don't know you. I don't know if you will suddenly have voices in your head telling you to go shoot up a bunch of people in a grocery store. I also don't know how well trained you are to use your gun for the protection you are assuming it provides you. An untrained armed person is dangerous to my life. I also don't know how well you are watching your gun and making sure that no one else besides for you has access to it. Were you to buy a gun with all these factors still unknown, my life would be in danger.

↑ gold21 ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:25 am

imorethanamother wrote:

The off-duty CBP officer ran into a classroom and took out his family. But the armed gunman had barricaded himself in an entirely different classroom, and every cop that attempted to get into that classroom was initially shot, one seriously. It's not like the CBP cop rescued his kids from that fourth grade classroom. The media slant is about obviously trying to portray like this guy could have rescued all 19 kids but chose instead to only rescue his family.

Unfortunately, as soon as the gunman entered, he cloistered himself in a classroom and no parent could have saved their children from that one. The rest of the parents just wanted to get their kids from within the school, but that would have been a terrible idea.

As a parent, of course you will do anything for your own child. But you are not trained. You have no weapon, and you cannot go barging into situations that you don't understand and are not trained for. And by running in, often you make things worse for the people that ARE trained, because now they have to rescue YOU.

I completely disagree with your take. Most parents are willing to die for their children. That is their choice.

The CBP agent rescued ALL the children from the other classrooms, not only his own daughter. He got ALL the terrified kids out of the building other than the ones in the barricaded classroom.

You write- *You have no weapon*

Why assume that? There is a right to bear arms in this country. Assuming a bunch of armed parents stormed the building, I'm not quite sure how that is worse than a bunch of armed cops milling about, still in the "planning" stage, unsure about how to handle the gunman and arresting terrified parents.

Yeah.... No.

Last edited by gold21 on Fri, May 27 2022, 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ exaustedmom ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:26 am

imorethanamother wrote:

How could the parents have made it worse? The cops did absolutely nothing!

↑ gold21 ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:30 am

imorethanamother wrote:

That's a good thing.

The last thing you need is a load of untrained people storming the building, causing chaos, blocking entrances and exits for the SWAT team, running around screaming. Do you really think hysterical parents would have the wherewithal to stop a gunman armed with three different semi-automatics because they really care?

Life isn't a movie. In the movies, lots of unarmed people can storm a gunman and take him down. In real life, that just gives them more targets.

He apparently had ONE gun on him. He left the other guns in the car. Not that it matters.

I hate the way you condescend parents who lost their babies or were afraid of losing their babies. Really. A parents devotion is far greater than any movie can ever capture.

"Hysterical" parents? Really? Not a very sensitive descriptor. Try: brave, devoted, loving, selfless, determined.

Seems like it was the cops who were hysterical and couldn't get it together.

These parents were people whose children were stuck in a building with an active shooter. Nuff said.

The hysterical reaction by the cops was pathetic. They couldn't get it together. If all the parents were armed and had stormed the building, they would likely have saved the lives of some of the children, although some may have lost their own lives in exchange. And that is their sacrifice to make.

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:37 am

gold21 wrote:

Name me one other situation where a hostage situation was improved by the families of the hostages storming the building.

I'm not being condescending, just being practical. The whole thing is devastating. We are all trying so hard to think of one thing that could have improved the situation, but short of being a fortune teller or having a time machine or being in a country where mentally ill people don't have access to guns, it's really hard to say what really would have helped.

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:38 am

gold21 wrote:

By the way, the shooter did not barricade himself in a classroom. The official statement is that the cops locked him in to cut their losses and save the other classrooms of kids.

Cool, except for the kids in that classroom.

Source? literally every news article says he barricaded himself in the classroom, and most of hte deaths happened immediately.

What would you have done? And how can you guarantee that the outcome wouldn't have been worse?

↑ monkeymamma ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:40 am

gold21 wrote:

If the bolded is true then its shocking because they had the ability to shoot him and stop him from hurting anyone else but instead chose to just leave him alive in the classroom. This requires an investigation and the cop who made the decision to lock him in instead of shooting him should be fired.

↑ gold21 ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:41 am

imorethanamother wrote:

A hostage situation is NOT the same as an active shooter situation. A hostage situation generally requires patience and time. This was not a hostage situation.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:41 am

pause wrote:

Interesting. So it seems like in this country it's more important to support people's right to go hunting than people's right to stay alive.

The Second Amendment is not to protect people's right to hunt.

Second Amendment is to protect people from GOVERNMENT TYRANTS.

That is why the Government Tyrants are so desperate to DISARM We the People.

In recent times, Government have DISARMED the people - and then GOVERNMENT
MURDERED 100 MILLION:

Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, Turkey, North Korea, Nazi Germany

NEVER NEVER NEVER LET GOVERNMENT TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS!

Look at the GOVERNMENT TYRANNY IN AUSTRALIA - after Australia gave up
their guns after a Mass Shooting. They surely regret doing that!

↑ pause ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:51 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I don't believe We the People should be DISARMED. I believe that gun ownership needs at least as much regulation as mortgage approvals.

↑ monkeymamma ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:53 am

imorethanamother wrote:

Source?

Every article today by NY Times, CNN, etc, all say that the gunman barricaded himself.

I saw a video of someone who has spoken to one of the kids in the class who made it out alive and she said that the gunman blew out the window from the door. Of course, she is a 10 year old child and probably frightened out of her mind/traumatized (and this was another person telling the story) but if what she says is true then the police could have easily have taken him out through the broken door window. Or they could have taken him out through the acutal window by breaking the glass. But if they just stood around and didnt do anything (not even try to take the kids from other classrooms out to safety) then they are liable for what happened and should be fired for it. But then again, they may have been too scared to do anything because of the "defund the police" movement so maybe they did the right thing regardless. Perhaps a social worker would have been able to help in this case considering there was a mentally ill person and the "defund the police" movement wants social workers to deal with such people in the first place Banging head

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:56 am

gold21 wrote:

A hostage situation is NOT the same as an active shooter situation. A hostage situation generally requires patience and time. This was not a hostage situation.

Literally from the time the gunman entered the building until the time he was killed was one entire hour.

You have the luxury of reading lots of articles, you have never been in the military or the police force, you have never received any training, and you know exactly every move that happened in the school building?

The other kids in the school building were essentially hostages to the drama unfolding, even while they weren't in the classroom.

I watched this episode years ago, and it's not for the fainthearted. It's the first thing I thought of when I heard the new.

It shows an unedited cut of what police officers might go through in an "active shooter" situation. It also shows that police are real people, not robots. People freeze. Information is confused. In real life as in this episode, the cops didn't even know where the gunman was or where the shots were coming from at first. You are responsible to obey orders, so your tactical team first needs to come up with a plan. And in the end, these police officers put their own bodies in the way to help other children.

I'm not saying the police did everything correctly. I think that - unfortunately - all our police units need to undergo extensive, intense school shooter trainings. But that it's easy to place blame when we ourselves aren't there. If parents HAD thrown themselves, unarmed, into the building. If they had unlocked the classroom and the gunman would have mowed them down with his seven packs of 30 round magazines, and then traveled to other classrooms, the police would have been lambasted for not controlling the environment. Either way, they lose.

TRIGGER WARNING FOR EPISODE BELOW, I'm not embedding the YouTube video here for a reason.
https://youtu.be/LtxiokrYpxw

↑ pause ↓

Fri, May 27 2022, 10:58 am

monkeymamma wrote:

You know this is Texas, one of the reddest states. I'm not sure they even know about "defunding the police."