Aliyah! | Imamother

Charli ↓

Sat, May 03 2008, 10:42 pm

Hi everyone I'm Rivka, I'm new on imamother. My husband and I are interested in making Aliyah and I was just wondering if there are any people in Israel who can tell me about the different places there are to live. We can't really afford a pilot trip so I want to see if we can figure out where we want to live before we actually make Aliyah!

↑ Charli

Sat, May 03 2008, 11:20 pm

We're in our early twenties and have a baby daughter, definitely working crowd, I think out of Yerushalayim.

My husband and I both have very combined Hashkafos. As far as I go, my mother is Israeli and a Baalat T'shuvah through Lubavitch, my father is american and they are both very Yeshivish, except they are Zionist too. So I'm still very mixed up you see! But I cover my hair completely and want only single-gender schools for my children IY"H.

My husband's parents are very Yeshivish, Rabbi Avigdor Miller style, except my husband was 'off the derech' as a teenager and came back but does not want to be Yeshivish.

We like to think we are Halachic, Torah abiding Jews without having to lock ourselves into a specific stereotype. We need a place that will help my husband continue on his progress and be a warm place, almost like Kiruv for him in terms of learning and explaining the what's and the why's.

As far as Anglo, I would like at least 50/50 Anglo/Israeli, even leaning more toward Anglo, although I don't think I would want to live in a place that is exclusively Anglo.

We wouldn't move directly to the community we picked. I think we'll go with Nefesh B'Nefesh and stay in their 3 month program, and hopefully then we'll be able to check out the two or three places that we've narrowed it down to before making a decision.

Last edited by Charli on Sat, May 03 2008, 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

Imaonwheels ↓

Sat, May 03 2008, 11:21 pm

IHi! I have been here for 26 years and know the country well. I mod an aliya forum elsewhere so ask away. I will ask you some basic questions:
1. What occupation(s) do you work in?
2. Will you have initial money for buying a house/apt or car? How much?
3. Do you have Israeli family that you want to be close to?

I know, nosy. But these questions will help make the best match. I came on aliya never having been in Israel a young couple with 6 mo. old baby and $1,000. Anything is possible if you are realistic.

I strongly recommend going into a heavily Anglo area. If you feel you need some ok but my experience is that it is a hindrance to successful klita for many. First of all it tends to inflate housing prices, adaptation to Israeli culture is slowed considerably and an us - them mentality can develop.

As to NBN, take their aid but not their advice. Start real life as soon as possible. Depending on what you have to start with I have a few ideas.

Tamiri

Sun, May 04 2008, 12:55 am

I may be wrong, but I don't think there is any "NBN three month program". They guide you here but you need to find a place to live etc. The Absorption ministry (if it still exists) can put you up in an absorption center for up to 6 months, if I am not mistaken but these days, N. American Olim generally opt out of that option.

You note that you don't have money for a pilot trip. I am going to second ImaonWheels and be nosy: Do you have money for initial set-up here? Unless you are willing to live a bit out, housing is not inexpensive, and neither are day-to-day expenses. You need money to live here, as anywhere. It's totally doable but you must get your information together so you can make informed decisions.
As far as a place to live, there is a Moshav called Matityahu which you may want to research on the internet. It may fit your requirements.

Marion ↓

Sun, May 04 2008, 1:16 am

May I suggest Ma'ale Adumim? It's a bus ride from Jerusalem, but even the newest neighbourhood has bus service every 1/2 hour (most yishuvim have a bus an hour or so). It's not exactly a 50/50 anglo/Israeli split, but there are definitely religious/anglo enclaves within the city. (RachelEve14, can you chime in here please?)

If you have just the one infant, it's definitely still doable with just the bus (bus pass is currently 285NIS/month, including Jerusalem and most of the surrounding area...not the Gush). We also have our own aliya & klita office in the city, on the municipal payroll (not federal, so not subject to the union's striking whims) who is absolutely fantastic.

Housing is still reasonable (both renting or buying). Other costs of living are what they are.

A word of advice...unless you wind up somewhere where you NEED a car, it is cheaper to rent one on the rare occasions that you would use one that it is to buy one and maintain it.

A 2nd word of advice...don't buy something you don't need just because you have the "right" to do so. Wait until you need it, then figure out how to afford it.

mandksima

Sun, May 04 2008, 1:47 am

I can write more later but just wanted to say that I don't think Moshav Matityahu is right for you if you don't want Yeshivish as it is American charedi. I know it well, and it definiately wouldn't be right for me and I sound a lot like what Charli is describing. It does have mostly Anglos but you have to abide by certain charedi specifications and one Rav.

I wouldn't recommemd someplace too far out from Yerushalim in the beginning but it will be more expensive, what are you expecting to pay for rent? Do you speak Hebrew or will you and your DH need ulpan? I will try to think of places.

chavamom

Sun, May 04 2008, 1:53 am

Tamiri wrote:

As far as a place to live, there is a Moshav called Matityahu which you may want to research on the internet. It may fit your requirements.

I used to live there and also thought of it. The problem is that, if I'm not mistaken, new "members" have to buy in at a very steep price. I think there might be some people that rent there though.

↑ Imaonwheels ↓

Sun, May 04 2008, 2:01 am

Tamiri wrote:

There are no more absorbtion centers if you are not Ethiopian. The last large Russian aliya also had to find there living spaces and were royally ripped off by get rich quick companies founded by Russian Israelis. I would do this where you live thing carefully.

I have looked several times (including a few minutes ago) at NBN's site and their recommendations. I specifically look at a city I lived in for 10 years and know very well. It is a city with a very large religious community with shuls, schools and communities of ever type. If you read their over view of the place there are only 2 or 3 shuls, 2 schools and hi praise for certain rabbonim. By reading their overview I can tell what shul the writer davens in (which he recommends more warmly than the others. If they do not give you financial assistance you do not need them at all. The burocracy is not nearly what it once was. Everything is computerized.

ora_43

Sun, May 04 2008, 2:02 am

If you're looking for a warm community I'd recommend something on the smaller side, maybe a yishuv. I assume hareidi isn't right for you right now, so probably a dati leumi place, possibly Beit El or Shilo? Both are right-wing dati leumi (meaning most women cover their hair, there are kollels, separate-gender schooling for kids, etc), and both are reasonably close to major cities.

I don't think you'll need 50/50 anglo/Israeli if you're looking for a strong English speaking community. I've been in a lot of neighborhoods/towns with a much lower ratio than that (10-20% anglo) and there are still plenty of English speaking families around, enough that most English speakers feel very at home. 50/50 would limit you to Efrat, Ramat Beit Shemesh, and maybe one or two other places. Eli (another yishuv, mixed secular-religious but mostly a strong religious feel to it) is about 25% anglo, that might be another option.

I second what Marion said about cars.

↑ Imaonwheels ↓

Sun, May 04 2008, 2:19 am

The problem with the smaller place is finding yourself religiously. If you are not hardwired into one group then it is better to live at first in a place with different options so you can feel where you fit in. Except for Maaleh Adumim the other suggestions offer no religious variety. To join Matityahu you have to all have the same rav, keep their hechsher list, etc. Yishuvim are often the same. There is not just charedi or dati leumi. There are many flavors of both. Living in Efrat is very different from Beit El is different from Shilo is different from my yishuv, Yitzhar.

After thinking I would recommend Kochav Yaakov and the bus is super cheap. It is included in the Y-m monthly pass. It is 10 minutes from Y-m, it and its satellite, Tel Tzion have a wide variety of religious options. There are buses to Y-m schools if you choose them over the local schools. Both parts of the yishuv live together and intermingle - dati leumi Kochav Yaacov and Chareidi Tel Tzion. The 2 being connected yet independent fosters respect because no one resents being forced. A new Anglo neighborhood is being built in Tel Tzion but I hear it wants to be more insular than the rest of Tel Tzion. There are definitly Anglos in both sections.

RachelEve14

Sun, May 04 2008, 2:22 am

I was also going to write Ma'ale Adumim but Marion beat me to it Smile

It seems to have a lot of what you are looking for, and you can definatly find reasonably priced places to buy, although rents have gone up here a lot. It really depends on what you are looking for though, and what is "expensive" for you. You don't need a car here which is one reason we came, there are lots of anglos, and the schools are seperate from 1st grade (gan & kindergarten are mixed, although there is at least 1 boys & 1 girls (sepereate) I know of)

HTH Smile

↑ smiley:)

Sun, May 04 2008, 2:26 am

I also recommended Kochav Yaakov to Charli privately.
The monthly J-m pass doesnt fully cover the ride out here. You need a special pass which includes Y-m and coming out here. I think it's about 290 shekel a month total. That;s somewhat of a side point though. Ah general ride out to here is less than 4 shekel though.

binayeseira

Sun, May 04 2008, 4:10 am

As helpful as all of these posts may be, if you are considering Aliya, your first move should be to contact Nefesh B' Nefesh at www.nbn.org.il (no, it won't surprise me if you already have).

Rabbi Joshua Fass is a doll and a wizard, but really all of the people there are very professional. We know a fellow named Dudy Starck who accompanies all the flights from America. We made Aliya 10 years ago (before NBN). Don't know if Har Nof is for you, but if it is, we're here.

Hatzlacha

BY

hila

Sun, May 04 2008, 4:26 am

Maybe also consider Gush Etrsion if you are interested in Anglo areas. Efrat is about 40% English speaking parents. One school is separated from Gan Hova, and teh other from kita daled.

The surrounding yishuvim - Neve Daniel, Elazar, Alon Shvut also have a high number of Americans/ English etc. I dont know too much about the school in Alon Shvut, but many send their kids to the more torani school in Efrat .

We are a half hour from Centre of Jerusalem (without traffic jams) and more in rush hour. It helps to have a car, but there is bus service.

BUT as severyone said - see if you have some money to get set up here at all. A pilot trip is also a great idea to get the feel of places. And a support group of friends and aquaintances is helpful.

In Efrat tehre is a paid aliya coordinator, who does her best to help olim. The best help is others who have BTDT.

Behatslacha !

freidasima

Sun, May 04 2008, 8:39 am

All of these ideas are great but first and foremost are you and/or your dh going to be working? Getting a job is the first step, otherwise you don't have what to live on unless you are learning and getting a stipend or coming with money. If you don't have enough for a pilot trip doesn't sound like the latter.

And if so, what professions are you looking for? That makes the difference. Everyone is speaking about Yerushalayim and yishuvim around and those are wonderful (!) but not everyone can get a job that suits their skills there or can cope with a long commute and running a car in EY cost a LOT of money!

SharonaB

Sun, May 04 2008, 11:06 am

We made aliyah in 2006. We made no pilot trip and came with little savings. We have lived in three different places and only really found what we wanted by experiencing what we didn't.

I don't think you can find an ideal place to live straight off. Most people move about. My advice is to find somewhere pretty central and rent. Somewhere with anglos who can give you the benefit of their advice and with good transport links to visit different communities.

Just come, do ulpan, look for work, look at different schooling options and get a feel for life here and your options. Don't expect to get it all right first time. Anyone who has made aliyah will tell you that the main thing you need is savlanut (patience). Be motivated, flexible and talk to lots of people.

Good luck for a successful aliyah