"You hate me, right? You wish I was different?"

fmt4

Mon, Aug 16 2021, 7:33 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

God I wish I was as perfect as you think I should be.

Please ignore that judgmental comment. I think every other person who read your post is blown away by how incredible you are in such a difficult situation. Most of us are sitting here in awe and I don’t think any of us could handle it any better than you are. It’s an impossible situation, and someone would have to be SUPERHUMAN to not wish that their kid didn’t behave that way. Please have compassion on yourself and know how much compassion we all have for you. Don’t let that one comment make you feel guilty - if anything you are only guilty of being a human being!

↑ bigsis144 ↓

Mon, Aug 16 2021, 7:47 pm

I have calmly sat through conversations like this multiple times:

DS: Ema, do you hate me?
Me: No. I don’t hate you and I never will. I will always, always love you, even if I yell at you or am angry or sad.
DS: You just say that because that’s what parents are supposed to say. (pause) Would you hate me if I killed DD2*?
Me: (completely calm) DS11, that is a very very scary thing to say and I hope you don’t mean that. (making eye contact, still very calm) I want you to know that Tatty and I will not let you hurt anyone. We will do whatever it takes to keep everyone in our family safe, even if that means calling the police or keeping you away from other people. And we can do this while still loving you. DS11, even if you did something hurtful and terrible, I would still love you. I would be sad and hurt and scared and angry, but I would still love you. Nothing will make me stop loving you. But that doesn’t mean I let you do whatever you want.
DS: (looks away and changes the subject)

It’s hard to have this conversation over and over again (doesn’t everyone’s bedtime chats with their kids sound like this? 🤪), but I will keep having it until it sinks in.

So, @SafeAtLast, I hope that my actions and actual spoken words will count for more than emotions that I don’t really have control over.

—

* And again, @Ecru, my daughter sleeps in my room at night, and I do not believe this to be a credible threat. I believe that DS11 is using the most extreme language and situations he can think of to test my boundaries and reactions, and the professionals that I am in contact with support this.

Last edited by bigsis144 on Mon, Aug 16 2021, 8:18 pm; edited 3 times in total

Sara255

Mon, Aug 16 2021, 8:07 pm

I'm not a parenting class person and this question is coming from my own instinct and intuition. But isn't it better for a child to learn the social boundaries of their own behavior? Like yes, If you act so difficult and disagreeable and push boundaries, it will push away people, even those who love you most. So obviously you love your son but it might not be easy to be around him, and might knowing that be a motivator to change?
I was raised pretty old school and I remember my father telling my brothers "if you speak/eat/act that way, your wife will not like you".
Also you are a really special mom. And I think it's to your credit that you are trying so hard. Sending hugs, and sorry if my answer is not helpful.

↑ bigsis144 ↓

Mon, Aug 16 2021, 8:46 pm

amother [ DarkYellow ] wrote:

Wow. You are so strong I cant even begin to imagine. I am going though something with my son who is younger and on a MUCH smaller scale. But he constantly is asking me do you love me and why do you do this if you love me questions. And I am so emotionally drained and zapped from answering. So the fact that you go through this every day is awe inspiring. Literally. Wow. You are an inspiration.

Thank you for your kind words.

I really, really don’t feel inspirational. I am so far from perfect and it’s hard not to imagine that every time I slip up and don’t react exactly the way I “should”, that all the good I’ve ever done is wiped away and I have to start at the bottom of the pit again.

But I post this under my imamother name (and have posted about my challenges in the past) to hopefully make other people with similar struggles feel less alone. Because the loneliness is probably the hardest part. Sometimes I vacillate between “no one else has it this bad, no one will understand what I’m going through, no one can give me guidance through this nightmare” and “everyone’s kids are like this, I’m just particularly weak and unable to cope, I am the only person who is falling apart raising her child”. Two flavors of loneliness, equally bitter.

So I’m in therapy!! And that keeps me sane. Can’t recommend it enough, y’all.

—

Thank you so everyone who took time to read and leave kind comments. It helps more than you know. 💗

↑ bigsis144 ↓

Mon, Aug 16 2021, 9:28 pm

Holy cow I just broke up a wild interaction to find two broken lightbulbs (it takes a lot of force to shatter a lightbulb with a pillow…) and DS11 said “Do you wanna punch me now?”

And I just… I just wanna clean the glass shards out of DS8’s sheets, okay????

—

And then when DS11 asked for a story 20 minutes later when I was done cleaning up the glass, I said, “sorry, it’s too late now for a story. I can sing you shema and then you gotta go to sleep.”

His response? “Ohhhhh, so you’re saying it’s MY FAULT??”

Lord give me patience.

Last edited by bigsis144 on Mon, Aug 16 2021, 10:31 pm; edited 2 times in total

enneamom

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 1:33 am

bigsis144 wrote:

Well, here's one silver lining: he feels completely safe with you. He feels comfortable asking you the scariest questions, which shows that he is actually very confident in your love for him. So maybe the issue is more one of him testing boundaries than him actually thinking you hate him. Or, he hates himself for what he is doing, but it's easier for him to express that by saying that you hate him.

amother

↑ Zinnia

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 1:47 am

fmt4 wrote:

I am not judging OP for her feelings or giving my opinion on how to handle the situation.
I simply believe that it isn't true that the child is imagining it.
He isn't imagining it. And that's okay.
What is the point of denying his feelings when it happens to be true?
He can be full of self loathing and also know that people wish he were different. It isn't a contradiction.
Most gut feelings are based on at least a kernel of truth.
He definitely has reasons to believe this because of his behavior, and awareness of what normal behavior is.

Again no judgement to OPs feelings. Especially being that she does not want to feel that way, and is obviously working on it.

Last edited by amother on Tue, Dec 21 2021, 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ dankbar ↓

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 2:18 am

I would suggest that when he misbehaves think to yourself that he has the ability to behave & change if he wants to, instead of why is he so bad, I am a failure, how will he grow up? Just think about all his positive traits, and he will grow up to be a tzadik. Even if you don't say it, just think it to yourself. Walk away, and disconnect the negative attachment you have to each others. Try really not to associate his behaviors with the success or not of your parenting. Don't let it define you or reflect his behavior on you as a person. Good luck!

amother

Watermelon

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 4:37 am

OP, please sedate your son, and if that doesn't work, find a care home for him. He is obviously too violent to be allowed around younger children.

I'm terrified that one morning you are going to wake up and find out that all the other kids have been stabbed to death. You can see this coming, and if you don't act now and one of your other children gets hurt, you'll never forgive yourself.

You can love your son to the moon and back, but it won't fix psychosis and psychopathy.

Think of the other kids. Even if he doesn't stab them, they are all going to grow up with serious PTSD. Just ask anyone on the board who has had an older sibling like this.

Would you let anyone else treat your younger kids this way?

Chickensoupprof ↓

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 8:02 am

When I was a kid, I had also these tantrums that I told my mom that I hated her or that she hated her. As a teen I also said 'well too bad you can't abort me I think you wished you could have'.
I think when a parent is overly concerned about a child and when the child is 'special' it effects your child.
People don't realize that children have sensitivities, even when they are neurodiverse or anything else. I felt pretty good that people treated me differently or that I was severely punished or often getting sent out of class because I was me.
And that is pretty hurtful.
When you get singled out so much in school and you are the odd one in the family I think you might 'test' people.
I remember as a 11 year old that my teacher told us that his wife worked at a youth prison/psychiatry... he told us 'there is where the angry kids go to who don't have a conscience if you don't have a conscience you are more likely to do really bad things'.
I believed I didn't had any conscience I must be going to that place and I fought really hard to proof otherwise. You can also think as a child 'I do what people aspect me to do, I f I'm bad I will do bad'.... If you feel an outcast a castaway, a paria who is always wrong and weird even if this is not exciplitly said... You will behave like this...

I'm 27, I'm married and even while I can make us dinner, I travel to every place I want to, and even that I failed hard in studies and work... I still get to hear from my mom ''Well you are always outstanding special''. It feels that she secretly wished that I didn't became frum (becoming frum was according her being extra different and why would you do that?... I always think that she wished that I would live in the same old village got married with a guy from the same village had a job and had a labradoodle and still could eat at her place.

I always feel there is an exclamation mark behind my name or a sign on my forehead... Once a special need always a special need and always feeling like a pariah.

Most of the children want to have love. I had once a 5-year-old who had a big tantrum that he was throwing stuff at me and said that I was stupid... I said I know he was upset, that I still love him, and that he needs to get to his own room... I will never say about this child he is difficult or a burden even if he throws stuff at me. Because I've been this child and it made me feel I was indeed a psychopath. I needed 'shefele it's ok that you are so upset... go to your room and calm down for a while. I love you no matter what.

↑ Chickensoupprof ↓

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 8:09 am

enneamom wrote:

I really think that he is hating himself, when I was that age I really couldn't control my emotions and I didn't knew how to prevent them. I hated myself so much of that and no one did ANYTHING to see that it was only 'you are autistic you lack empathy and have difficulties with friends and why are you doing like this I really thought the world was better without me because if I was not empathic and never will have friendship what was the point of living? And tbh I still have this feeling sometimes, that I'm an outcast a thug and life wouldn't get any better. And it is a coping mechanism to act like the bad person then instead of saying (what is almost impossible as a child) '' I don't know what to do I'm hopeless please help me).

I think there should be someone who can help this vunerable child with this feeling. Some children would say 'I think you wished I was dead' or 'You love the other kinderlahc better then I have'... If that's the case, there need to be an intervention now. Look in to psychomotoric therapy, creative therapy... Selfesteem is so important.

↑ Chickensoupprof

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 8:14 am

amother [ Watermelon ] wrote:

This kid is not having psychosis and it's not a psychopath... It's still a young child and psychosis are coming in late puberty or early adulthood. Same as psychopathy which is really quite rare. This child needs love, understanding, healthy boundaries and patience.

↑ bigsis144 ↓

Tue, Aug 17 2021, 8:58 am

amother [ Apple ] wrote:

Poor kid. He says you wish he was different because HE wishes he was different. He can’t help himself.
These type of kids are so hard.
Did I miss the part where you spoke about medication? I read the thread very briefly and might have missed it.
Is he on any medic?

He has been on medication in the past, but it’s not a magical cure. When he straight up says, “I’m only taking this to prove that this does nothing and the only reason you make me take it is to enjoy seeing me choke while I swallow a pill”, it’s no surprise that his (conscious or unconscious) self-sabotage would outweigh any benefits of the meds.

Quote:

Is he seeing a therapist? My sister's son used to think she hated him and, after a year of therapy, he started to feel better about himself. I am sure you have tried everything but its unclear.

He is not currently seeing a therapist because he says it’s a “waste of time” and I can’t force it. We have been “let go” by multiple therapists who found him impossible to work with and believe that forcing someone to see a therapist compromises the therapeutic process. I haven’t given up, but most therapists in my area are virtual only (and utterly useless to us), and the in-person places have a 6-9 month waiting list (which I’m on, because that’s better than nothing).

(Just answering you quickly, though I did say in my OP that this wasn’t a “ask about what I’ve tried” kind of thread.)

Last edited by bigsis144 on Tue, Aug 17 2021, 9:06 am; edited 3 times in total