Designer buys: 'Don't judge me!' and 'respect me!'

amother

↑ Burntblack ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:42 am

I’m currently in a dbt group and can’t recommend it enough for everyone!

Being non judge mental is a huge part of it and really changed me a lot.

amother

Feverfew ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:53 am

amother [ Petunia ] wrote:

But if your lifestyle keeps you away from museums, and expects everyone to have the same taste in furniture, and limits what you read, clothing and food become your only creative outlets. Then these very shallow interests end up being disproportionately important in your life.

THIS
If people would have more interesting things to do with their time, they might forget about their clothing for an hour, maybe.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:55 am

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Those are not equivalents. One is a choice and the other is not.

Please explain how its not a matter of choice to wear a designer brand or not, assuming one can afford each.

↑ hodeez

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:55 am

amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:

THIS
If people would have more interesting things to do with their time, they might forget about their clothing for an hour, maybe.

...mah hakesher...are they not allowed to go to parks or scenic areas? I havent been to a museum since dating, doesn't make me a boring person who's only interest is showing off .

amother

↑ Burntblack ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:57 am

amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:

THIS
If people would have more interesting things to do with their time, they might forget about their clothing for an hour, maybe.

I know people who have time for both.
One person in particular: she is always growing, gives her basement to people who need it etc etc but still looks beautiful in her designer clothing.

It’s ok

amother

↑ Navyblue ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:57 am

amother [ Petunia ] wrote:

This is your opinion. I think it is disrespectful and patronizing to assume that large groups of people have only food and clothing as their creative outlets.

amother

Chocolate ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:57 am

imaima wrote:

You just sound jealous.

I did not read through the whole thread. But as someone who knows DVOM personally, I myself likely being too materialistic and into fashion, I can assure you she is not jealous. To me when I hear someone saying “you’re just jealous” it reminds me of those stories that end “and it was all a dream”. It’s just a catch all meaningless phrase that indicates you have nothing of any depth to add.

amother

↑ Navyblue

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 11:59 am

amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:

THIS
If people would have more interesting things to do with their time, they might forget about their clothing for an hour, maybe.

Wow, I am shocked at your presumption. Why is it so hard for you to understand that others may have different interests than you? Yes, clothing and design is an interest and it has been so since the beginning of time. Having a busy and engaging life and looking fashionable is not a paradox.

amother

↑ Crimson ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:00 pm

amother [ Navyblue ] wrote:

This is your opinion. I think it is disrespectful and patronizing to assume that large groups of people have only food and clothing as their creative outlets.

Perhaps it is disrespectful and patronizing to assume that large groups of people have only food and clothing as their creative outlets, but how is it disrespectful or patronizing to observe that large groups of people have only food and clothing as their creative outlets?

↑ enneamom ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:01 pm

imaima wrote:

You just sound jealous.

Of course, because everyone really secretly wants to live that way. If they don't, they must secretly be jealous. It can't possibly be that they value more important things and feel it's silly to waste so much time out of our short lives, not to mention money, on externals.

SwissAlps ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:02 pm

I think having a good balance is what's key. Sometimes that means quality over price. However, there definitely are people who get different brand name things because of peer pressure. Maybe because I don't suffer majorly from peer pressure, I wish that this pressure would not exist and find it ridiculous how it comes to play in various areas of our life. (Not just designer stuff)

Personally, I sometimes will specifically get a not such well known brand in the frum world, that has good reviews when I need something quality, so that I will be a little different. Again, like I said I don't have a lot of peer pressure and I like to quietly go against the grain.

I don't mean to judge at all, and I don't look down at anyone who does fall for this pressure. My main frustrations with this has actually nothing to do with designer brands. I also know that this is a very normal thing in life and I feel blessed that I don't have a lot of it.

amother

↑ Chocolate

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:02 pm

DVOM wrote:

The highly entertaining 'designer buys' thread was locked before my super-duper important thoughts could be committed to writing!

Here they are:

Regarding 'don't judge me!':

We use our clothing and our 'stuff' to signal our belonging. When you dress in all designer clothes and buy all designer gear, you're trying to send a message about yourself: your cool, you're 'in', you belong, you're 'normal'. When this stuff becomes the uniform, all people who want entry to this club feel they must have it. Clubs are no fun when everyone can enter; part of the joy of being in a club is its inherent exclusivity. So the club uniform gets more and more expensive and difficult to obtain for the regular Joe and Jane. But if you want to be part of the club, you'll prioritize it above other expenses, because without this stuff you can't signal your belonging.

My point is (I was getting to it!!): You want others to judge you. Saying 'don't judge me based on my stuff' is kinda funny. You bought your stuff so that others can make judgment calls about you based on that very same stuff. You want to show that you belong, that you're in the know, that you've got the right stuff and are therefore the right type of person, whatever that is in your community and culture.

Regarding 'respect me!':

The problem occurs when others, usually those outside of your community, outside of the club, take a look at all the stuff that has become important signals of belonging and find it shallow, or silly, or vain, or ridiculous. You wanted the judgment of 'you belong' when people look at the stuff you've got on display, but no one likes the judgment of 'That's your club uniform??? What's wrong with all you people? Why aren't any of you thinking for yourselves, realizing how nuts it is that everyone needs the same 1,000$ stroller to feel normal?" After all, all you need to belong to this particular club is money and the knowledge of the 'correct' things to buy. Not particularly admirable traits, in and of themselves.

Of course, being human, most people like to feel they belong to something, some community, some club. But not every club has 'stuff' as their symbols of belonging. Education or community involvement or ascribing to a certain set of beliefs can also be club entry tickets.

(Someone pointed out on the other thread that one of the entry tickets to the 'imamother cool kids' club is a belief in the values of frugality, even a belief in extreme austerity. I think this is interesting and true. Of course, interesting ideas and quality writing skills are also 'imamother cool kids' entry tickets. I admire those things. It's a club I'd like to belong to!)

I don't find acquiring 'stuff' to signal belonging to be a particularly mature or interesting way to join a 'club'. Clubs like this are not ones I usually want to belong to. I know I will get tomatoed for saying so, but this is not a behavior that I'm particularly impressed with. There's no skill or effort or accomplishment in acquiring stuff. In other words, no, I don't respect it. That doesn't mean to say that I don't respect YOU. There might be many things I find very respectable about you. But your designer stuff is not one of them. And if I'm really honest, it can be a challenge for me to look past all your stuff and find the things I do respect about you: your hard work, your intellect, your talents. A kind of reverse snobbery I guess. My automatic thinking is that if your willing to be part of such a boring, low-threshold-entry club, you might be a boring person. Of course, I'm proven wrong time and time again. Many people who ascribe to the 'cool designer stuff' club, are also interesting, intelligent, wonderful people.

I think this is very well said, but I’m curious where I’d fall. I like nice expensive things, but I hate having what everyone else has. So when I decided to splurge on expensive baby gear, I refused to get a bugaboo and a doona. What club do I fall into with my $1000 stroller that no one I know has? Can I like nice things for myself without trying to have other people notice?

amother

↑ Feverfew

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:03 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Huh?

↑ farmom

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:06 pm

sky wrote:

I always find these comments perplexing.
I pass down children’s place ‘crocs’ through 3 girls. They look better then regular crocs at this point. My kids say they are comfy.
So what decides real crocs are better quality or more comfortable. Same with natives. Natives look dirty and grungy just the same.
I think we think the labels make it better quality bec it’s a name brand. But is it true? Based on what?

I don’t judge ppl who wear name brands
For my girls last year it was important to get real natives so I did.
They told me the end of the year themselves it was no better then fakes we had in past.
I think they still want the real ones tho again. I don’t deny labels matter to ppl.

I guess I should have prefaced that with 'in my experience'. I am not a brand name person. At all. And I can't fathom paying extra just because it's designer. I've done both types of Crocs, from all sorts of places. I just find the real ones to be more comfortable and better quality. I do try to find them on sale though.

Although now that I think of it, my children's place Crocs did last many years

Last edited by farmom on Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ SwissAlps

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:06 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Are you me?

Although, usually this is only in regards to when I want quality. So I have a very good quality stroller but I found one at a very good bargain.

Lovable ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:07 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

The answer is Yes, you can
Im not sure why you are taking her post so to heart, to the point that you dont know where you belong
Just continue doing your best & being you. No one can decide for you if you actually bought what you did in order to make a statement, or just because you liked it. And frankly, its none of their business.

amother

↑ Crimson ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:07 pm

amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:

Huh?

There is a difference between assuming something and being aware of a fact.

hoff123 ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:11 pm

I’m just wondering why do we care???? Why on earth do we have pages and pages of ppl writing abt what other ppl wear and buy?!? What is wrong with ppl???? If u can’t look past externals then we have a problem! If someone wants to spend $2000 on a shoe then good for her and if someone spends $2 on a shoe good g from her too! why does it affect us? It looks like all these ‘frugal ruchniyus’ ppl feel good putting down the ‘brand name buyers’. If ur that ruchniyusdig then stop with the Loshon hara and chill out! LET EVERYONE BUY WHATEVER THEY WANT!

↑ Lovable ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:15 pm

I did not read through the entire thread, but Im just wondering if anyone is thinking along these lines
Regarding the Judging: As yidden, we all know that judging others is not acceptable. Be it for the behavior, dress, way of life etc.
Regarding the Respect: As yidden, we are obligated to respect another yid as much as we respect ourselves. Period. No matter their background, way of life, mantality and so on
Just throwing it out there

↑ Lovable ↓

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:17 pm

hoff123 wrote:

I totally agree! When I tried expressing it on the original thread, I was bombarded by amother Milk, that Im being rude, bullying etc.
But the truth is the truth, no denying it.....you are 100% right
and the ONLY reason someone would care is if they are jealous. Jealousy is a hard thing to admit - which is why this thread is going on & on & on