Is a degree a waste of $ for kid w/o specific career plans

Elfrida ↓

Tue, May 04 2021, 12:53 pm

At some point in any career, doors start closing if you don't have a degree. The question is whether she is likely to reach that point.

Do her long term plans include supporting a husband in kollel? Or is she looking to marry someone who will learn for limited period and then move into a job while she is able to stay at home?

Office jobs straight out of school are great for a while, but often have limited earning potential. If she wants to support a husband and family, she needs to be able to progress beyond that kind of job. It sounds as though she may not have really considered her future other than following the standard paths.

What is she doing next year? Going to seminary? She can probably get college credits from the seminary, and you can put off the decision for now. A year away from home might give her a wider perspective and new ideas about her future.

amother

Seafoam ↓

Tue, May 04 2021, 12:53 pm

As someone who was not motivated after HS and did not get a degree before marriage, I completely regret not going to school before marriage/kids.
I would have her get a job to see what kind of job she likes. She may be fine with secretarial/office job and may not need to get a degree. She may see she doesn't like that kind of job and get more of a feel for what kind of job she wants.
I am currently pursuing a degree with kids and responsibilities and it is hard.
For me I didnt really see what I was interested in until I started college. So maybe have her do some general ed classes while working.

↑ DrMom

Tue, May 04 2021, 12:56 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We tried a career counselor but nothing interested dd. At this point in her life she’s just enjoying her social life and chessed activities. School is a party. Her grades are fine but she’s not the studious type. She also isn’t super aware of her strengths and weaknesses and has an unrealistic view of her ability to multitask. We don’t want to do the Jewish programs because they’re overpriced. We looked into community college but again are just hesitating at the tuition (which is reasonable but still adds up) if she won’t have anything to show for it in the end.

She sounds like she is a bit immature for marriage and motherhood.

amother

Honeydew ↓

Tue, May 04 2021, 1:06 pm

A degree is NOT a waste of time and money. If she’s going to need a job some day that piece of paper is necessary!!! Better to do it before she has the responsibility of a husband and kids. It’s normal to not know exactly what she wants to do. I was like that. I just wanted to be a mommy. I was a young bais Yaakov girl with no life experience and completely naive of what real life is like. I am extremely grateful to my parents for pushing me to go to Touro. I figured out what I wanted to do after I started college. I actually regret not pushing myself more to take licensing exams and get more experience before having kids. I also went to a career counselor and got no where because all I had in my head was that I wanted to be a mommy.
What are her talents? Is she a people person? An introvert? Good at math? Like science? Artistic? Good with computers?

ETA look into scholarships. Touro for one gives academic, dean, presidential. Also look into financial aid options.

amother

Gold ↓

Tue, May 04 2021, 1:08 pm

I took a gap year between high school and college and worked in an office. That was an eye opener because I realized that without a degree I would be doing boring work for not much per hour. If I was going to work I might as well make as much money per hour as possible at a more interesting and challenging position.

I didn’t go to college with a specific career in my mind but I did have a different attitude than my classmates because I thought how easy it was to go to class a few hours a week and read and do papers versus working 40 hours per week at a dull job. I did wind up in a professional degree program which enabled me to earn a professional type of salary.

I would say you should make your daughter work so she gets a dose of reality. And as others have pointed out, you should also educate her in terms of economic realities of marriage. What are the odds of her marrying someone who will be able to support her in comfort without her working at a well paying job to contribute to family income

amother

↑ Papaya

Tue, May 04 2021, 1:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I know a lot of my friends feel they wasted money paying for college when their dds didn’t finish their degrees bc they bH got married. The dds are all working office jobs now and doing fine. I don’t want to throw money away.

How old are these dds that they are all fine with office jobs? Are they all still in their twenties, without huge expenses?
An office job may be enough at that stage, but it may not be enough a decade later.

Who does she think is going to support her? Is she counting on marrying someone who earns a high income? Today most homes need two incomes, and the likelihood is high that she will need to work.

I would tell her to get an office job and see if she wants to spend the rest of her life doing it. Also have her see how much rent and household expenses are, and how much of that an office job covers or does not cover.

amother

Gray

Tue, May 04 2021, 1:25 pm

I can think of a HS classmate of mine who probably was like your daughter. No specific aspirations and deferred college for an office job. That’s all fine and good. But life didn’t turn out the way she hoped and she was still working an office job when she got married at 32. The rest of us (including me who also married ‘late’) went to college and grad school and have careers and she remained in her office job. Honestly it was very sad to see her biding time when she could have been doing work that was more meaningful. Also she could have likely earned more. I just think it sounds like Your daughter is making lots of plans for when she gets married but who is saying when that will happen?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, May 04 2021, 2:06 pm

Dd isn’t flaky and immature. She’s pretty typical when I look at her classmates. She’s involved in tons of chesed opportunities and is a giving person. It’s fine for her not to know what she wants to do yet. She has no real world experience so I don’t expect her to have things figured out. She doesn’t plan to marry a long time learner and we don’t intend to support (unless we win the lottery). She’ll probably end up working and her husband working too. Life’s expensive once you start having kids.

I see a lot of my friends who went to college ended up not using their degree because the pay and stress wasn’t worth it. I have friends who are OTs and regret the amount of debt they took on to become an OT, bc the pay isn’t worth it. I have a social worker friend who works in an office bc the pay and stress wasn’t worth it. I can count easily 7 ladies I’m friends with who got a BA but aren’t using it. I look at dh and myself and we bH love our jobs but spend so much time outside of regular work hours on our jobs, and I don’t really want that for dd either, especially as iyH a young mother. I just feel like college doesn’t magically give you an easy path to $ so I don’t know if it’s worth the time and expense unless you absolutely know what field you’re passionate about.

amother

↑ Cerise

Tue, May 04 2021, 2:10 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I see a lot of my friends who went to college ended up not using their degree because the pay and stress wasn’t worth it. I have friends who are OTs and regret the amount of debt they took on to become an OT, bc the pay isn’t worth it. I have a social worker friend who works in an office bc the pay and stress wasn’t worth it. I can count easily 7 ladies I’m friends with who got a BA but aren’t using it. I look at dh and myself and we bH love our jobs but spend so much time outside of regular work hours on our jobs, and I don’t really want that for dd either, especially as iyH a young mother. I just feel like college doesn’t magically give you an easy path to $ so I don’t know if it’s worth the time and expense unless you absolutely know what field you’re passionate about.

Amen to this. Agree so much.

amother

Azure

Tue, May 04 2021, 2:15 pm

There are no guarantees she’ll use the degree if she gets one. As a parent, though, if you can afford it without a lot of difficulty, you’d be giving her more options for the future. She can make money without a degree, but with one she is more likely to make a bit more.

I was flaky and undecided at that age too. My parents just took my word for it and didn’t push me at all, despite knowing I was plenty smart and capable. Besides not knowing what to study, I had vague and unrealistic expectations of finances post-marriage and some idealistic ideas of not going to college. Now I really regret not getting a degree when I had fewer expenses and responsibilities.

ETA: I think trying out different fields at this life stage is also a good idea, and perhaps as worthwhile as a degree. Now’s the time to take entry-level jobs that show you what you’re good at what you like and don’t like. She can get a degree at the same time, too, really.

amother

↑ Gold ↓

Tue, May 04 2021, 2:18 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Obviously no life is going to be without issues and difficulties.

However, because of the life you have chosen which includes relatively high salaries BECAUSE of your education, your daughter ironically has had a fairly advantaged upbringing.

I think you are really limiting career choices to what are the classic "frum" female underpaid choices. There is a world beyond being an OT or a social worker. I only know one person who is happy with her choice of being a social worker and that is because she did the necessary post graduate training to become a therapist and built a practice up over the years that is both satisfying and remunerative. In her case, she knew she wanted to be a therapist but didn't want to get the PHD in psychology which is necessary to become a clinical psychologist so becoming a social worker was a means to an end.

There is a whole world of career possibilities available that are well paying and would offer satisfaction to your daughter depending on her aptitudes and interests. Most college kids don't know what they want to do when they are 18. Which is why I suggested a gap year which at least helped me approach college with a different attitude because the alternative was a life of low earnings and dead end jobs.

The idea of a non vocational degree is denigrated a lot on this forum but the reality is that it opens vocational doors that are unrelated to the specific major. Companies generally will not hire even assistants without college degrees - and corporations generally promote assistants to better positions. And assistants learn the business. A "secretary" without a degree is generally going to be a secretary/assistant forever.

amother

Rose

Tue, May 04 2021, 2:25 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

If a big concern is wasting money, but she's generally able to do the coursework, she could look for a job at a local university. Many universities provide either deep tuition discounts or downright free tuition to employees and staff, although you have to read the fine print carefully because there can be limitations on eligibility and caps on amounts.

I have a friend currently working full time at a university who is about to graduate from a master's program for which she only paid a nominal amount per semester, like $50, plus cost of books.

What’s her job and how’d she get it?

amother

↑ Navy ↓

Tue, May 04 2021, 2:33 pm

I think it is also noteworthy that you say your daughter "isn't a motivated go getter type."

This may not be true. Or it may be merely situational and temporary rather than a permanent part of her personality. She might become very motivated on gaining more experience and developing enthusiasm for something.

But if your description is truly accurate as to her intrinsic nature, then she is very unlikely to become a successful entrepreneur or raise her earning potential in other unusual ways, such as by acquiring a very high level of skill in some specialized or dangerous field. For a not very motivated person, a degree that leads to a medium-paying salary with reasonable hours for mediocre performance may be a very good option.