Not fasting Tisha b'Av

amother

OP ↓

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:28 pm

We recently told our 12 year old that she will not be allowed to fast Tisha b'av. She was so disappointed. I explained to her that while it's a mitzvah for us to fast, it's just as big a mitzvah for her not to. She gets it but it's still bothering her. How can I make the day meaningful for her? She already volunteered to watch my toddler for me, which I thought was sweet. But I want to do something for her so it isn't just the same as it was every year before her bas mitzvah.

Elfrida ↓

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:36 pm

Is she ill? Why can't she fast? Halachically she should, post Bat Mitzvah, unless there are serious extenuating circumstances.

Maybe she could fast until chatzot? That would make some difference to the day. Or limit her drinking to shiurim? That would be acknowledging the significance of the day.

amother

Indigo

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:40 pm

Elfrida wrote:

Not sure about OP's situation but our rov is advising everyone not to fast this year due to corona, in order to keep our immune systems very strong.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:46 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

Not sure about OP's situation but our rov is advising everyone not to fast this year due to corona, in order to keep our immune systems very strong.

That's not the case here, since the OP states that she and her husband are fasting.

Most paskim that I have come across are recommending that people who are asymptomatic or in isolation should break their fast if they feel weak (and then should limit their drinking to shiurim), and only people who are symptomatic or recovering but still feel weak should not fast at all.

Last edited by Elfrida on Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:50 pm

My general rule is one hour of fasting for one year of age. Take it one hour at a time, and make sure your child knows that they can say when they have had enough and can't take it anymore.

(Within reason, of course. Babies and toddlers don't get treated that way, but once kids are in school, understand the day, and want to participate, then I think it's OK.)

↑ Elfrida ↓

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:54 pm

applesbananas wrote:

Sounds to me like OP daughter has a condition. Maybe she doesnt want to discuss it...

I thought about that, but if that were the case the daughter would probably have understood in advance that fasting would always be an issue for her. This sounds as though it came as a shock.

giselle ↓

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 1:58 pm

This thread has taken such a strange turn. Why does OP have to explain why her daughter can’t fast? She asked for ideas of how to make it meaningful...

OP, does she like reading? There are books that can help make the day more meaningful. I don’t know any for her age offhand, but maybe others with girls that age might have suggestions.

nanny24/7 ↓

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 2:26 pm

Elfrida wrote:

I have been told by quite a few prominent rabbanim that there is no basis in halacha for fasting with shiurim on tisha bav. Once someone needs to eat at all, their fast is anyways over and they can eat and drink anything normally. The idea of shiurim only applies to Yom Kippur which is a fast medeoiraisa in which case the small shiurim is still actually not transgressing the deoiraisa prohibition of fasting. I am not paskening of course for others, just want to point out a common misconception.
Back to OPs main question, I actually think it's a wonderful opportunity for chinuch to discuss the role of a Jewish woman and the prominent importance of her health and devotion to her children in halacha. Many women can't fast on many occasions and are told it's even an aveirah for them to fast.
I myself was told that plenty of times.
The misconception of women who fast despite getting ill from it and spending the entire day on the verge of passing out or even passing out and still fasting after, is sadly too common and it's no mitzvah in Torah Judasim. And yes that once happened to me.
If you want you can even discuss pregnancy or postpartum with her as an example. I would think that's not too young for such discussions.

↑ Elfrida

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 2:37 pm

nanny24/7 wrote:

I was also under that impression, but I have seen a number of published psakim this year that specifically advise drinking in shiurim when necessary. So it seems that there is something in it.

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 2:46 pm

Op, do you mind sharing why she won’t fast? I’m curious because I have a 12 year old daughter who has a very hard time fasting and we weren’t sure what to do. She literally gets sick, vomits, faints... we’ve been giving her lots of vitamins to try to make her stronger for the fast and we will encourage her as much as we can.
I would be interested in hearing of other 12 year olds who have a hard time with fast days.

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 2:51 pm

Dear OP
Your daighter can learn Megilat Eicha, Iob, read a book about the Holocaust.
My mother had a rule that on T'Bav if you ate, you started your day with a dry piece of bread. No nash all day long.
Hope your daughter will find a way to make it meaningful to her.

notshanarishona

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 3:01 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Ask a shayla and also tAke her to the dr for blood work to rule out any condition that causes low blood sugar or other reasons for difficulty fasting. I fasted for many years similarly to that and was then told not to fast minor fasts at all and 9 av and yom kippur take it year by year depending what else is going on. Turns out I get hypoglycemia from fasting and it’s dangerous.

amother

Black

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 3:11 pm

nanny24/7 wrote:

The misconception of women who fast despite getting ill from it and spending the entire day on the verge of passing out or even passing out and still fasting after, is sadly too common and it's no mitzvah in Torah Judasim. And yes that once happened to me.
If you want you can even discuss pregnancy or postpartum with her as an example. I would think that's not too young for such discussions.

Me too. The next day I discovered how unnecessary it was and I was really upset. Dh saw how badly I was doing and it didn’t occur to him that I could break my fast. I asked my father but he was in a different state and he didn’t understand how sick I was.
These days if it’s after chatzos and I’m close to vomiting, I break my fast. I’m traumatized.