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-> Interesting Discussions
amother
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 Sun, Dec 08 2019, 5:53 pm
| amother [ Jetblack ] wrote: | | In addition to the weekly fleish chulent, we have sesame chicken, kugels, dips, fish, sushi, baked goods, deli roll, and of course scotch and other booze. |
And your point is?
There is someone sponsoring all this, food doesn't just pay for itself you know ...
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 5:54 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | We spent Shabbat at a different community that we're thinking of moving to. The Shul only has Cholent at Kiddush if it's specifically sponsored by someone. If nobody sponsors the cholent, the regular kiddush (whether someone sponsors or not, apparently) is just a very basic thing. (Cholent happened to be sponsored this Shabbat, and as it turns out, it was very disappointing cholent!)
I've read about this (no Cholent unless specifically sponsored) on here before, but never seen it at any of the local shuls we frequent. It just seems patronizing and infantilizing, as if we were in elementary school and the teacher is punishing the entire class because nobody stepped up to sponsor the cholent.
This is a fairly well off community that appears to have plenty of machers contributing to big capital projects. Also, membership dues for this shul are upwards of $2000/year. It strikes me as unlikely that the shul really can't afford to put out cholent if nobody happens to sponsor it. Or how much would it cost to increase everyone's dues to cover the actual cost of a parve cholent even? Can't be that much. The whole thing just seems tacky to me.
BTW, I really like how our shul does the Kiddish. We have a huge Kiddush every week and sponsorship is really affordable ($180 or $200 I think) and doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of the Kiddush. The idea is to make it cheap so that it's not a big deal for people to sponsor fairly regularly for minor simchas -- kids' birthdays, anniversary, just because. We often have 2-3 sponsors in any given week. Other shuls make a full kiddush sponsorship $500-1000, and that just makes people only want to sponsor for really special occasions. |
I think it's tacky that you're asking this question. You sound very entitled and spoiled.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 6:04 pm
I think this post is really weird. It's a little strange to go somewhere and then complain about the cholent at the Kiddush. My shul personally has a kiddush almost every week, with cholent and kugel. We make the cholent ourselves, so it really cost very little. And we don't put meat in it most of the time.
But honestly it's a little it's very strange to base a place off the Kiddush policy in shul.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 6:16 pm
| amother [ Gray ] wrote: | And your point is?
There is someone sponsoring all this, food doesn't just pay for itself you know ... |
Obviously someone is -- or many people are -- sponsoring all this food. The point is that it's not uncommon for shuls to have a substantial kiddish. It doesn't require tons of money. As I mentioned in the OP, the extensive kiddish works out well at our shul because the sponsorship is so cheaply priced that multiple people step up and sponsor every week.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 6:27 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Obviously someone is -- or many people are -- sponsoring all this food. The point is that it's not uncommon for shuls to have a substantial kiddish. It doesn't require tons of money. As I mentioned in the OP, the extensive kiddish works out well at our shul because the sponsorship is so cheaply priced that multiple people step up and sponsor every week. |
People also have to volunteer to set up and clean up.
Sorry, but this post is a perfect example to me of a person being used to something and then just cannot imagine life without it. Be a little stronger than that.
I like when my family comes straight home or spends as little time at the kiddush as possible. Shabbos is family time. I understand that it is nice in the winter to perhaps have a little something so that men (and maybe some women) who have not yet broken their fast don't have to go back out into the cold to walk home still hungry. But on a weekly basis: then you have people who treat shul like social hour. They come for adon olam and the kiddudh, not the davening and leining.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 6:49 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | We spent Shabbat at a different community that we're thinking of moving to. The Shul only has Cholent at Kiddush if it's specifically sponsored by someone. If nobody sponsors the cholent, the regular kiddush (whether someone sponsors or not, apparently) is just a very basic thing. (Cholent happened to be sponsored this Shabbat, and as it turns out, it was very disappointing cholent!)
I've read about this (no Cholent unless specifically sponsored) on here before, but never seen it at any of the local shuls we frequent. It just seems patronizing and infantilizing, as if we were in elementary school and the teacher is punishing the entire class because nobody stepped up to sponsor the cholent.
This is a fairly well off community that appears to have plenty of machers contributing to big capital projects. Also, membership dues for this shul are upwards of $2000/year. It strikes me as unlikely that the shul really can't afford to put out cholent if nobody happens to sponsor it. Or how much would it cost to increase everyone's dues to cover the actual cost of a parve cholent even? Can't be that much. The whole thing just seems tacky to me.
BTW, I really like how our shul does the Kiddish. We have a huge Kiddush every week and sponsorship is really affordable ($180 or $200 I think) and doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of the Kiddush. The idea is to make it cheap so that it's not a big deal for people to sponsor fairly regularly for minor simchas -- kids' birthdays, anniversary, just because. We often have 2-3 sponsors in any given week. Other shuls make a full kiddush sponsorship $500-1000, and that just makes people only want to sponsor for really special occasions. |
From this (I.e. "I think") I'm inferring that you have never sponsored a kiddush at your own shul. Let's say everyone did that? There'd be no kiddush. Boo hoo.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 7:12 pm
Our shul has chulent if someone sponsors it. Same with herring, kugel, cakes. Some weeks the kiddush is minimal; other weeks it's more substantial. Depends on who's sponsoring and what they feel like doing. Nobody really cares because it's not a focus. But we're a yeshivishe kehilla. I've davened at more modern shuls where the kiddush was fancy and the socializing after shul was extensive. I guess if shmoozing after shul is a highlight of Shabbos, you want the food to be ample and good so people stick around? I guess OP you should really look into whether the shul is a good fit for you. Not that chulent is really important--and it's certainly not "tacky" not to serve it unless someone covers the cost, that's just being respectful of financial realities and not pressuring people to pay for unnecessary extras--but you do want to find a place where the people are on the same wavelength as you and are looking to build the same type of community. If you want a shul where people look to connect extensively after davening, then chulent could be a good thing to look for.
Hatzlocha with your move!
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 7:25 pm
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Also you seem to think that every shul can cover the cost of a kiddush since ur shul charges " minimully" and can cover the rest. I have been the one to cook the Kiddush many many many times for my shul. ( And have seen what goes on behind the scenes of a kiddush many times) Not always does someone have the money or want to cover the rest of the "minimul' amount they charge. Maybe your shul doesn't mind covering the cost but for lots of shuls it really digs into their budget to pay for a part of the Kiddush weekly.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 7:34 pm
| amother [ Yellow ] wrote: | | From this (I.e. "I think") I'm inferring that you have never sponsored a kiddush at your own shul. Let's say everyone did that? There'd be no kiddush. Boo hoo. |
You're inferring incorrectly. We've always paid $200. I've heard other people say the cost is $180, but who cares.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:20 pm
OP - move to the new shul. Get involved. Suggest that they lower the kiddush sponsorship amount and see if it attracts multiple sponsors. It sounds like a nice pricing model.
(I think chulent belongs a at lunch personally.)
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amother
Chartreuse
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:26 pm
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not tacky at all just different
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:29 pm
| amother [ Gray ] wrote: | And your point is?
There is someone sponsoring all this, food doesn't just pay for itself you know ... |
Many people chip in for the kiddish. There are 5 or 6 members who take care of various food items weekly. Others donate candy for yom tovim. There's no charge for membership.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:44 pm
| anonymrs wrote: | | Sincerely curious, do people decide on a community to move to based on what is served at a shul kiddush? |
Only those whose main connection to Yiddishkeit is food—what we call “bagels and lox Jews” or in this case “cholent Jews”, or those who are incredibly spoiled, entitled, and lucky enough to live in a place where there are so many quality Shuls that are just their speed religiously that they can afford to play such a game. (Or that their religiosity is such that religious speed doesn’t matter because they go to shul JFK—just for kiddush. Yes, it’s a “thing”. Unfortunately.)
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amother
Puce
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:04 pm
The shul we use to go to would have a FULL sit down lunch, BUT
1. We were a VERY small shul, about 15 families, about 70 ppl including kids.
2. It wasn’t fancy
3. The members shopped and cooked themselves in the shul kitchen with the rabbi supervising
The usual menu
Challah
Tuna
Egg salad
Israeli Salad
Bagged iceberg lettuce
Coleslaw
Pickles
Olives
Cholent
Kugel 2 types
Dunkin Heinz cake
Sometimes, if someone wanted to make something different they would buy the ingredients and make it in shul,
Sometimes members would buy deli.
Again, nothing fancy
The shul was like one big family.
The Safra Synagogue in Manhattan has a lavish kiddush every Shabbat.
More lavish than a wedding including various hot meat dishes, ribs, stuffed veggies, sliced roast beef, a few chicken dishes, etc.
All this is graciously sponsored by the Safra Foundation
Earlier minyanim have lavish dairy breakfast
Most of the Shuls I’ve been to have a stand up kiddush of grape juice and mezonot and a few other simple things
The shul has to have the funds to cover this and the expense adds
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amother
Forestgreen
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:11 pm
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I daven in a suburban RWMO type shul. Everyone pays (or should pay, but that's a whole other discussion) membership dues. We only have a kiddush when there is a simcha or someone sponsors one for any other reason. Many women with small children don't make it to shul every week or even most weeks, especially in bad weather. We find other ways to socialize, whether that's hosting or going out for meals, or attending shiurim or Sisterhood events or volunteering on committees, etc. A kiddush is not the end all or be all.
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singleagain
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:19 pm
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By the way... 180-200 is a LOT of money for some people. My dad's Kiddush is 80$ plus a bottle. And o don't know how it happens on other kiddushes. By my dad. If there are multiple sponsorship one week. Everyone pays full price. Which means that there is then money to cover the weeks there's is no sponsor otherwise it would be nothing some weeks.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 11:10 pm
Sadly, there are some really bitter/nasty comments in this thread. Some of the things being said are totally absurd, most notably:
- If you enjoy a good kiddish, you're an disgusting fatso who is stuffing your face at the kiddish and then going home and again stuffing your face with another huge meal
- If you enjoy a good kiddish, you must be a bad Jew who doesn't take yiddishkeit and davening and shul seriously
I bet a lot of the nasty comments are coming from insecure women who can't imagine anything is better than what they have, and want to put other people/shuls down. They'd rather trash other shuls with substantial kiddishes, rather than realize that there could be something beautiful about a shul with an extensive kiddish.
There are many benefits to an extensive kiddish in shul, and it's not just about stuffing your face. For example:
- You can socialize and meet new/different people who aren't necessarily in your circles much more easily if people stick around for a while rather than grabbing some grape juice and dashing out. And then you know new people to invite to proper Shabbos meals at your house.
- Relatedly, it creates a community atmosphere, avoids cliques, gets everyone involved, etc. People who don't have a natural place to go (e.g., singles) don't have to worry about hoping/begging for a lunch invite.
- It's a good opportunity to get to know the out-of-town families of the people in our community. If someone's parents or cousin visits once every few months, they get to know us and we get to know them. People know each others' out of town family because of the extended socialization.
- You can avoid having to cook a big Saturday afternoon meal or spend several hours hosting a big meal or at someone else's house. You can eat a lot at kiddish, come home and take a nap and relax, maybe have some leftovers from Friday night, etc. It makes everyone's life easier not to have to worry about Saturday.
- And yes, it does encourage some people who wouldn't otherwise show up to come to shul. We have some JFKs (just for kiddush) or people who come near the end. But who cares? Just because someone isn't in shul the whole time doesn't make them a bad person and doesn't mean they can't be a valuable member of the community. Everyone connects to Judaism differently. Maybe they don't connect to davening as much as other people do. Or maybe they daven at home for whatever reason. Who are you to judge that they're a bad bad Jew? And even if someone who isn't the model davener... they can be a good financial supporter of the shul, can volunteer their time to the shul, can have good midot and be a nice person people like having in the community, can do mitzvot in other ways, etc.
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HonesttoGod
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 11:10 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Obviously someone is -- or many people are -- sponsoring all this food. The point is that it's not uncommon for shuls to have a substantial kiddish. It doesn't require tons of money. As I mentioned in the OP, the extensive kiddish works out well at our shul because the sponsorship is so cheaply priced that multiple people step up and sponsor every week. |
Honey, it IS expensive. It DOES require money and it’s not just money, it’s manpower.
Putting aside how entitled and spoiled you sound - I mean really since when is anyone under any obligation to sponsor your shabbat lunch? Can’t you cook at home?
A kiddish should be a L’Chaim and a mezonos. What more is needed ? Challah, kishke, Galla, herring , cholent and Kugel you have at home. And if you don’t, make it, then decide how cheap it is.
Seriously I so don’t get this mentality. I’m so puzzled by this thread.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 11:24 pm
| HonesttoGod wrote: |
A kiddish should be a L’Chaim and a mezonos. |
You mean... "a kiddish should be X because I said it should be X"
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amother
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 11:32 pm
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This is one of those threads that will go nowhere....op, if this truly important to you, maybe look for a different shul. You seem more interested in arguing with posters than getting help with deciding whether to join.
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